Podcast 99: Why we need emotion in B2B

Emotion could be that secret ingredient that sets your B2B copy apart. And we want to help you take advantage of it.

This month’s episode of Good Copy, Bad Copy is all about bringing the emotion back into B2B content.

We’re joined by Paul Cash, CEO and Founder of Rooster Punk – and author of Humanizing B2B – for our feature interview. David and Paul talk about the human side of B2B copywriting, how the focus on the individual who is ultimately reading your content has been lost, and how and why we need to get it back.

B2B Marketing’s Propolis Hive Expert Barbara Stewart makes her co-hosting debut, chatting with David about Paul’s thoughts, and exploring them further from a sales perspective. They cover everything from a bizarre focus group on crisp varieties, to the huge and often overlooked benefit of testimonials.

And, of course, we have another superb copywriting tip for you. This time it’s from none other than last week’s co-host, George Reith, and he’s going to help you get that all-important variety into your writing.

You’ll find a full transcript of our podcast at the end of this post.

Why we should be striving to put the human back into B2B copywriting

Emotion has always been part of B2B marketing. However, as B2B and industrial marketing have moved further into the digital world – and away from in-person contact – emotion has faded into the background.

But selling products based entirely on features and benefits leaves a void where the emotional side once lived. And as B2B brands have become more and more focused on promoting a similar set of sales points, clients and customers are finding new ways to differentiate between them – and emotion is the biggest.

There is evidence to support the fact that clients and customers are increasingly giving weight to the brands that are showing up outside of their products. Brands that exist in a positive, meaningful, and authentic can connect with their clients and customers on an emotional level and create the best relationships.

So, how can you put this into action?

It’s all about inspiring a specific feeling, so establish what you want to convey, and identify the triggers you can use to evoke it. Paul Cash uses psychologist Robert Plutchik’s Wheel of Emotion, which breaks emotions down into emotional states and substates, as a planning tool when thinking about how to build that feeling-based connection.

Remember: you don’t want to talk about a feeling, but to create that feeling.

If you can be likeable as well as competent, you can gain an edge over your competition. By creating an emotional connection with your clients and customers, through taking creative risks with your marketing and setting yourself apart from other brands, you can inspire better engagement and loyalty.

In this episode, you’ll find…

00:40 – We welcome our co-host Barbara Stewart to Good Copy, Bad Copy

02:55 – Likeable, as well as competent: our interview with Paul Cash.

16:45 – Barbara and David discuss the interview, Barbara’s experiences with emotion in B2B, and how the buying journey has changed.

30:35 – Copywriting tip of the month: How to keep your writing varied.

Anything you loved in this episode? 

We’d love to hear your thoughts. Tweet us at @radixcom or pop us a message on podcast@radix-communications.com. Or, if you fancy your chances of appearing on the podcast, send a voice memo our way.

How to listen: 

Transcript: Good Copy Bad Copy 99: Why we need emotion in B2B


Paul (clip): We’re really cool. You can be cool too. Come and buy our product.

David: Hello listener and thank you for joining us for Episode 99 of Good Copy Bad Copy the B2B copywriting podcast. It’s so good to have you with us.

Barbara: This month we’re talking about using emotions in your B2B content. And Paul Cash will be telling us why it’s not enough for your B2B brand to be competent. It needs to be likeable too.

David: My name is David McGuire. I’m creative director at Radix Communications which is a B2B tech copywriting agency. And I really am delighted to be joined by a brand-new guest co-host for this episode. It’s B2B marketing’s Propolis Hive Expert for CX, which is easy for me to say. It’s Barbara Stewart. Barbara, welcome.

Barbara: Thanks, David. Thanks so much for having me. I’m very excited too. It’s a topic that’s very much at the heart of my passion. So, thank you.

David: Oh, no, thank you for coming in and agreeing to do it. So, you’re a Propolis Hive Expert, what’s one of them?

Barbara: I am indeed I lead the CX Hive. So, my role is very much to help. There’s approximately 100 currently, different B2B marketers that are in my hive, and they have a multitude of needs and advice and support. And I get to basically, every month, host events to help them understand frameworks, different methodologies, that they can be using such as CX metrics, or how to get buy-in from CEOs. And it’s very much focused on giving them practical advice or listening to each other and learning from each other. So, it’s a lot of fun.

David: How does it feel having to introduce yourself as an expert?

Barbara: I do not like it. I refer to myself as a practitioner. So, I do from strategy to deployment. So, the word expert it’s… yeah, it’s always unsettling. I like to avoid it.

David: They called me an expert. I didn’t say that.

Barbara: Yeah, I didn’t ask for it.

David: I believe you. Thousands wouldn’t.

So, could you please perform your first official duty as co-host? And tell the listener how they can get in touch with us?

Barbara: I certainly can. So, listener if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, you can contact the show by email: podcast@radix-communications.com or on Twitter: @Radixcom. Apologies because in Northern Irish, the word Twitter is hard to hear in my accent.

Our guest this month has a lot to say about emotions in B2B marketing, doesn’t he?

David: Yeah, he absolutely does. Paul Cash from Rooster Punk. He’s the author of Humanizing B2B with a Z. And when I saw him speak at Ignite on the importance of likability for B2B brands, I just thought he’d be really ideal for this episode. So, I was delighted when he agreed to chat. And I started by asking him: Well, hasn’t emotion always been part of B2B? What’s changed now?

Paul: So, I don’t think it’s new for sure. But it’s always been on the fringes of B2B marketing – was, as you say, hiding in the background. I think it’s more of a question of how and where it appears, that has changed. So much of historical B2B or industrial marketing was heavily reliant on emotional selling. The good old-fashioned sales rep with his expensive cameras and his company car would win deals based on his ability to charm, win over, and schmooze the traditional B2B buyer. And B2B was a relationship game. And emotion was the primary technique to get a foot in the door and expand from there.

So, I think obviously, the internet SaaS business models, the shift away from sales, obviously trying to cut out costs from the process, the digital customer journey now being everything. Actually, the emotion has gone out of the process, and brands haven’t necessarily filled that void. Instead, they’re doing what they always do, which is sell product, lead on features and benefits, and expect everything to be rosy.

And that, to me, is where the opportunity is. And that’s where we’re seeing this kind of change, as far as I’m concerned.

David: So, what kind of emotional responses does marketing need to pick up with now, that sales would have provided, what kind of emotions do we need to key into?

Paul: Yeah, so I think generally speaking evidence exists to support the fact that brands that show up in a positive, meaningful, and authentic way are the most liked brands. Having a positive outlook, I think, is key. But I think desire, appeal, kudos, stature, confidence, control are all emotional states that B2B buyers and decision-makers are either consciously or subconsciously influenced by.

And on the flip of that, you’ve got fear, which is another powerful emotion that is prevalent in the buyer journey, specifically for B2B. So, you’ve got fear of missing out, the whole FOMO thing; you’ve got fear of being irrelevant as a brand, or even as a marketeer; you’ve got fear of making the wrong decision, you know, the whole loss aversion bias that Rory Sutherland talks about. So, my take is, it’s more about the feeling that I’m trying to induce in a prospect, rather than just an emotion, and I think feelings have a greater context, but they are both the same side of the queen.

So, for example, if the feeling I want to create is, how do I make a prospect feel 10 feet tall? What emotional triggers do I need to use to induce that feeling? And there’s a brilliant tool by a famous psychologist called Robert Plutchik. And he has this wheel of emotion. And on this wheel of emotion, you’ve got all the main eight states and all these sub emotions. And they’re actually just really good planning tools to think about how you build that emotional and feeling-based connection.

David: By what you’re saying, it’s definitely about invoking the feeling, rather than talking about the feeling, right? From the point of view of when we’re creating the content – we often talk about ‘show don’t tell’.

Paul: Yeah, it’s the subtlety of marketing. Obviously, we’re not in a market stall. We’re not just shouting out: Yeah, we’re really cool. You can be cool too. Come and buy our products. You’ve got to earn the right to talk about products, you’ve got to influence and persuade people. All the usual rules of B2C marketing that, we have this conversation about, are they applicable to B2B? etc.

There’s a lot of really good stuff that B2C have done in their journey that we’re absolutely leveraging, which are really powerful ways to do that: the power of word; video is a fairly new medium in the world of B2B. And so, for the first time ever, we’re able to convey emotion through the power of video or words and music and we’ve only just touched the surface as far as I’m concerned.

David: And so, with the book, the whole concept of humanizing B2B, humanizing with a Z listener, if you want to find the book.

Paul: Yeah, trying to capture the American market.

David: Quite right too. So, what does that actually look like in practice? What does a more human approach to B2B marketing or B2B content look like?

Paul: Yes, I think it’s important to say that when I talk about humanizing B2B, at its heart, I see it as a modern-day philosophy, that actually promotes the human side of marketing as much as the functional side. So, we’re not trying to take away all the good stuff that B2B is known for, we’re just trying to add something to it. And most B2B brands are built on this single dimension of what I call competency.

For example, you make a good product, you scale it, you use automation tools, you’re operationally savvy, you build demand engine, and so forth. And all this comes with the territory of being professional, talking in jargon, using the colour blue, being ordinary, looking like everybody else in your category looks. And hopefully, if you’ve got all that right, you can be the trusted advisor. And all that stuff is so cookie-cutter, playbook-driven, every brand in every category – most of the companies look and feel and talk the same way. And so, it’s definitely lost its edge.

And I think that when I talk about the dimension of likability, as well as the dimension of competency, and I don’t mean likeability as it relates to people, there’s lots of conversation and narrative about that. I’m talking about likability in the absence of people. So, as you mentioned, through your brand, your content, your emails, your website, and so forth, the language, the way you speak, the way you come across, all those things are incredibly important. And that is this digital likeability. And that, to me, is where the game is won or lost.

And with so many buyers whether they’re 60%, 70%, 80%, or 90%, through the buying cycle, before they speak to a sales rep or some form of expert. The opportunity, therefore, to influence people is absolutely huge. And most brands don’t do anything, they still do the tired old, same old stuff. They’re not thinking about how to influence people in that digital journey from an emotional point of view. And I think that’s why B2B is an incredibly exciting place to be right now.

David: So, if the listener is nodding away, thinking great I could definitely want to take a step into this territory with my brand with my content? What kind of tips could you give them, to make their content more emotional, or more human? What can they practically do? And how can they sell that to their stakeholders too?

Paul: I’d look, first of all, at what other B2B brands are doing, not necessarily in your category but generally, which are the brands out there that have taken a decision to try and put a bit more emotion into their brand.

I would also say that I think most B2B agencies are just aching to do more interesting, more creative, more imaginative stuff, you’ve got to take some calculated risks. We are marketeers at the end of the day, we have to balance the demand engine bit, with actually pushing our business and our brands forward. So there needs to be some calculated risk that goes with it all.

And we did a campaign for Sage Pay last year. And it was incredibly difficult to understand the way that the marketing team had been set up and the way they’d conventionally done things. And we had to really shift their mindset to take a very subtle, emotional approach with this campaign called your business, your baby, but seven months after the campaign ad ran, we literally doubled all the marketing KPIs that they’d done the previous year.

So, there’s proof that this stuff works from just a marketing KPI point of view. But again, we did a campaign for KPMG, where the ask of us as an agency was, how do we dial the emotion in our campaign, and we did this pretty big content piece, it was a £1 million investment that KPMG spent, but they saw a £58 million return of close business opportunity off the back of this changing features campaign.

So, if you need a reason to go tell your commercial stakeholders, why you want to experiment and push it – because the growth metrics, increased all the value, increase lifetime value, increase margins, and so forth, are there to be had for the people brave enough to go and make a decision to push on this door. And the book is full of examples of these facts and data points and everything else

David: You mentioned to look at people maybe in other parts of B2B that are doing it well and taking inspiration from them. Apart from the couple that you’ve mentioned, is there anyone else in the space that you see and go, yeah, they’re doing it well, you can take some inspiration there?

Paul: I will say that I’ve always looked at SAP. So, from an enterprise point of view, I think SAP have always done a really good job of being able to humanise what they do. They made a decision to use consumer tactics like employing Clive Owen as being almost like that character, an ambassador for their brand and being able to use him to narrate their story and build that familiarity and likability.

I know that Hewlett Packard have used Christian Slater, again with his wolf campaign. So again, very B2C tactics driven in B2B. But on a lower scale, we’ve worked with brands like Crowdcube, who I think have taken to this whole humanizing notion brilliantly well, and again have seen significant business results off the back of it.

But there’s a brilliant commercial on YouTube for a company called Waze which is using these inflatable signpost dolls that signpost things across America – and it’s just hilarious. It’s a brilliant piece of storytelling, it gets the message across in a really interesting, engaging way.

So, I think there’s loads of good stuff happening in different pockets. And I guess you’re just trying to make it more mainstream. I think that’s the journey we’re on, as B2B marketeers is just for this not to be on the fringes anymore, but to be more mainstream, and the more we see, the more we experiment, the more data points say this stuff works, the more it’ll happen.

David: So why do you think this is so relevant right now, it certainly seems like it’s having a moment. Why do you think it is?

Paul: So, you’re absolutely right, David. It is having a moment. I think B2B marketing in its modern form is on an incredible learning curve. We are 50 years behind B2C in terms of leveraging emotion and positioning brands beyond the functional nature of what they do. But the good news is, we’re catching up fast. Emotion is catching people’s attention it feels like there’s a bit of a perfect storm of opportunity, which is brewing.

And I say that because I think, customers are less loyal than ever. The pandemic has meant people are more open-minded to exploring different vendors, etc. I think marketers are fed up with doing same old, same old, that speeds or feeds marketing, so they’re crying out for some kind of change. They’re also fed up with chasing technology or product differentiators as strategy when it’s easier sometimes to differentiate emotionally.

I think grabbing keeping people’s attention is harder than it has ever been. And we talk about storytelling being something new. But storytellers have got to compete with storytellers these days. It’s incredibly difficult. It’s not just about telling a story; you’ve got to tell a bloody good story.

I think business buyers and decision-makers have generally become a bit more compassionate. I think we’ve seen the millennial buyer. And definitely, as we see senior buyers eek past the age of 40, we tend to be more value-driven less about ourselves more conscious about the planet, and family and life and all those kinds of things like that.

And, finally alongside the fact that COVID is jolted people’s thinking, and this fear of being irrelevant in a post-pandemic world is actually scaring people into wanting to look at their brand and do things differently. We’ve also got all this amazing research from Binet and Field and the B2B LinkedIn institute that actually put in some numbers and metrics down. So, I think if you put all that stuff into the mixer, it feels like there’s real momentum, and that moment is happening.

David: If the listener wants to find out more, they want to get in touch with you and ask you stuff, they want to buy the book. Where can they do things like that?

Paul: So, the book is available on Amazon and all good bookstores. I can’t get enough of saying that – it’s my thing.

David: It really is, like you’re actually in shops.

Paul: Exactly. And if £16 is too much, you can get the Kindle version for a bargain busting 99p. You can track me down on LinkedIn, you can go to the agency website, which is roosterpunk.com. There is a specific HumanizingB2B.com website. And if you’re waiting for the audiobook, because I’m a big audio fan, that’s probably another nine months away I’m afraid. Or connect with me on LinkedIn, there’s loads of places to find me.

David: Thank you, Paul, you’ve given us a lot to think about there. And the book plug was expertly done, I must say, we’ll include a link to it in the show notes for you.

Barbara, I know you’re a big advocate of using emotions in B2B. So, what stood out there for you?

Barbara: I think, for me, listening to Paul, it really resonated. Very often when we’re communicating with our B2B potential customers or customers, we tend to see a job title and see that first and foremost, and actually, we’re all just human beings, we all have needs, we don’t differentiate ourselves, we don’t take off one cap and put on another at different moments. So, we are irrational, we are emotional people. Even people in procurement, that’s what they are. They’re emotional. We might not always think that, but they are.

And I think the reality is, we very much have to work out what type of mission that they’re on, how we can support them, and what is the way they want to be supported? Or do they want encouragement to do they want support and understanding that will help us understand how we are best partnering with them.

With B2B and digital, it’s got so complex, we’ve got so many buzzwords now. And I think for a lot of people, they’re still clinging to the past. And digital’s scary, they have this fear that digital stops the relationships that were so valuable. They think that sales reps are going to be eradicated because of automation and digital channels. Sales Reps will always be needed, they are incredibly valuable.

You basically need to focus on crafting the messaging that you can automate in the moments that should be service messaging, and let the sales reps, that the salespeople who are incredibly good at developing relationships, be in those moments that really matter. Driving deeper relationships and understanding how to add value to the customer. For me, that’s the opportunity for B2B marketing. And that was the overriding message the whole way. Listening to Paul, it was like, yes, finally, I’m hearing the magic words.

David: Absolutely. So, do you think the buying journey in B2B has been changing quite a bit? I know people have been saying, for a long time, people are doing more and more and more of their research before they engage with a salesperson.

And I guess COVID has probably kicked that percentage even higher because you can’t go out to events and meet people. So, although, of course, a lot of the time people will buy a product, because they like the salesperson and the salesperson recommended it and that’s the end of it. But do you think there’s an extent to which content is taking over some of the lifting as far as that rapport building, or not so much.

Barbara: I think content has such an important role. I think what content allows us to do is start having a conversation earlier. And start really making sure that what we have to offer and what solutions we can provide our customers with, they’re able to do some of the research beforehand. There is nothing worse than when you’re at the start of a potential journey when you’re doing the awareness and consideration and suddenly someone is telling you the solution when you haven’t worked out what the problem is.

For me content is the opportunity for whenever I’m being a B2B buyer, I’m having to work out exactly what I need, not what someone’s telling me I need and what someone’s gadgets and gizmos and features are telling me but what is the best resolution. And for me, I always go to referrals, I always go and ask people who I know have had a similar problem, or I get into Google fast, and I want to read articles, I want to read the features and functionality. And I want to read people’s blogs and understand how they’re helping customers just like me to solve problems.

So, for me, it’s giving me my automation process, I’m unwilling to speak to a salesperson at that moment. I don’t want to have a demo. I want to just do the research. When I’m ready, and I’m shortlisted, then I want to have a demo, but don’t try and sell to me before I’m ready and content is perfect for doing the pre-sale.

David: And that shortlisting process? Is it fair to say that’s maybe, in B2B, a bit less rational than people give it credit for, a lot of that’s down to how you feel about the company? Right? How you feel about the brand?

Barbara: Absolutely. I think a lot of times we forget how much brand purpose actually plays in in all of this, and especially in B2B. Brand purpose is very, very important in CX and in marketing. And the reality is, sometimes you have a gut feeling about a brand, or a product, or a service and it’s not rational. But that gut feeling is dictating and it’s not price led, it’s not, I have made some decisions where I was like, I really don’t know why I made that decision – but it felt right at the time. And these are not small decisions. And these are B2B purchases on a grand scale.

So, for me, we have to understand that people, when they are coming to consider your solution for what they need, they don’t always understand it. So don’t go and do lots of focus groups. And don’t spend lots of time asking people why they do things and then replicating content for that. What you need to do is understand what’s the job to be done? What are the products and features that they really need to not what you want to sell? And help them understand how your solution solves their problem via testimonials. To me, I don’t understand why everybody runs away from testimonials. I’m like, get them out there. let everybody see how you solve that.

David: Yeah, absolutely. Because a lot of it is testimonials, you’ve got the social proof. It’s a lot about helping people to feel comfortable and to feel safe a lot of the time in B2B. You’re a big fan of behavioural economics. I know. And you gave a really good webinar with Steve Kemish on Propolis. And that plays into that, doesn’t it? The different ways that people make decisions, and whether you make a slow decision or whether you make a snap decision. And actually, a lot of the time in B2B, we might assume it’s one. But really, it’s, it’s the other, right?

Barbara: Absolutely. It’s so easy to get stuck in making assumptions about how people purchase your products. And I think that is so true in B2B, it’s even true in B2C let’s be honest. We dictate we create these journeys and say this is how someone exactly behaves, and it’s not. There are so many intricacies for how we behave. What people forget very frequently, which I love, is as soon as you purchase something there’s social permissibility – you are now at risk of making the wrong decision.

So, you are actually naturally trying to do a natural referral programme with anybody else that you can because the more people that you can sell this exact same product to – it means you were right. So, we actually are at our highest advocacy and referral as soon as you handed money over not once you’ve got the product. You’re actually in a risk pattern, and you want to take that risk away from you, so you want to diversify that risk, which nobody uses referral straightaway.

David: Yeah, and because I suppose the features and benefits, they have their role to play, but again it’s almost post-rationalisation, right? There’s always this thing that the heart is the Oval Office, and the head is the Press Office. And it’s like, you’ve made your mind up and then you have to justify the decision that you’ve already made – to yourself, or to your buying unit, and to the rest of your organisation in B2B.

And I think it probably has a lot more in common with – oh, I bought this more expensive car because they’re more reliable, that’s a better-known brand or something like that – rather than just, I wanted one. But I think a lot of the time it’s the same thing in B2B, it’s in Thinking Fast and Slow, right? It’s type one and type two decision making, is that right?

Barbara: Absolutely. A lot of people, we don’t know why we think certain things. Now, there aren’t many decisions that are absolutely set in stone, especially when it comes to purchases that you will not change. These are big decisions that impact who you are at your absolute core. The rest, you’re actually making up why you’ve done a lot of it.

I’ve spent a lot of time doing focus groups, which I find highly entertaining. And I remember a very long time ago, doing one for Aldi, understanding new crisp variants, and I literally sat in a room, listening to people post-rationalise why they buy crisps. And I was just like, this is crazy, you walk down an aisle, right? Like, come on, there wasn’t that much to this. And I think from that moment on, I was like, we as human beings don’t always know why we make decisions, a lot of our decisions can be flipped incredibly fast.

And we can do a huge amount of research; we can absolutely be believing that we have the right solution. And then suddenly, either someone can influence us, or somebody can just land with an incredibly simple, valuable value proposition in the last moments, and convert us at rapid pace. And I think everybody’s experienced that – where suddenly you’re almost at the purchasing, and you put something down and lift something up really fast. And then what? And that’s it. That’s it on this tiny little scale, where it’s just the: Oh, there I go.

And I think a lot of times, it’s everybody, with behavioural economics. I’m really interested in the fact that, behavioural economics and CX are fascinating because everybody’s trying to manage and own the whole journey. Let’s plot out the whole journey. Let’s own all these key moments of truth. And I don’t worry about all the key moments, there’s actually probably two or three that are actually the key moments work out what they are, and be in those moments, spend your money where your competitors spreading themselves too thin. And you can hijack the brain and get it to be you as the last decision, because it’s usually the first and the last that are the pieces, all the stuff in between – you can change your mind incredibly rationally.

David: So, in a B2B buying process, what would that look like?

Barbara: Oh, now you’re asking me that the big questions, I think it’s making sure a lot of times when we create content for websites and looking at the sales reps, and the onboarding stage as well, we ensure we spend so much time in that top of funnel. But as we’re coming down, we get lesser and lesser content and less pointed, less sticky. We’ll just start throwing blogs in, we may do a white paper, but actually it’s that bottom funnel. That’s the real key.

Spend your time thinking about: What content do they need in the tiniest of bite sizes? And what are the messages that they need at that final moment? What can you tell them that’s better about the services or the products or what’s going to solve their problems more in those moments? Because that’s the key magic, that absolute top awareness. And for me, bottom funnel, getting those exactly right, focused on what their actual needs are, what their expectations are, show them in those moments how easy the onboarding is because that’s usually the biggest fear. Whoever’s buying, it is nervous that whoever is going to use it isn’t going to use it.

So, show from testimonials from users not from buyers, at that moment show how easy it is. Tell them that the onboarding was automated, and it only took X amount of time, and it saved X amount of money. And then show someone who actually went through the onboarding. I think very often we keep talking about ourselves, instead of showing our customers people just like them, and why they made those decisions.

Before we finish this month’s episode, it’s time for our copywriting tip of the month. This time, it’s from Radix, consultant writer, and last month’s guest co-host, George Reith.

George: My name’s George, I’m a senior copywriter and consultant at Radix. And my favourite copywriting tip is to keep a running record of phrases that you use a lot in your copy. Whether you choose to do that on a piece of paper, digitally, or on lots of post-it notes stuck to your monitor and desk, I find having that list of phrases you use a lot means you can avoid using them too much. I find that helps me keep my copy a bit more varied.

David: Thanks, George. If there’s anybody that I would take advice from on how not to be boring, it’s you. Barbara, does that one resonates with you?

Barbara: Honestly, I love that. I’m going to start doing it and actually understand what my buzzwords are. Because I’m sure my clients are going mad with the number of times I say, certain words that I’m not aware of. So, thank you very much, George, I’m going to let you know how I get on.

David: I want to know what’s on your list.

Barbara: I’m scared, I’m scared.

David: I’m afraid that is about all we have time for this month. Now, listener, it might not have escaped your attention. That next time is our 100th episode. And I have to tell you, it is going to be all change.

We have a slightly new format coming, a shorter running time and a new name for the podcast. So, look out for that. We will still have great guests. We’re starting with Doug Kessler next time. And we’ll keep the same focus on helping you get the most out of your B2B content.

So, if you’re a subscriber and you see a new B2B content podcast appear in September, don’t worry. It’s just us, just a new name and a new theme tune. I really can’t wait for you to hear it. Before then, though. Barbara, could you thank our contributors for this episode and also remind the listener where they can get in touch.

Barbara: Of course, thanks again to Paul Cash for helping us put the human back into B2B. And thanks, George for that wonderful copywriting tip. But most importantly, thank you, the listener for joining us, it’s been a lot of fun. And don’t forget, if you’d like to contact the show, you can do that on email: podcast@radix-communications.com or on Twitter: @Radixcom. And if you’re listening on Apple Podcasts, a review would be marvellous.

David: And thank you Barbara for co-hosting. I do hope you’ve enjoyed it. Has it been alright?

Barbara: It’s been wonderful. So much fun.

David: That’s kind of you. Listener, we’ll see you next time with a fresh new format, new name, and Doug Kessler. But until then, remember, science has discovered 27 distinct human emotions, but nobody has ever experienced the desire to enable website notifications.

David and Barbara: Bye.

Acknowledgements and thanks

  • Firstly, a huge Radix thank you to Barbara Stewart. It was wonderful to have you as our co-host for the first time – hopefully, it won’t be the last.
  • Thanks also to Paul Cash, for reminding us about the human side of B2B copy in that fantastic interview. And, of course, showing us all how it’s done with that smooth book plug.
  • And George, thank you for that brilliant copywriting tip of the month.

And for the eagle ‘eared’ listener…

Yes, this was Episode 99 of Good Copy, Bad Copy, which can only mean one thing. Next month we are celebrating our 100th episode! And we’re celebrating in style – with a slightly new format, a shorter running time, and a new name.

So, watch out for that next month, and when you subscribe and see that brand new B2B content podcast appear in September, know that it’s still us – and get ready to hear our exciting new sound.

Podcast editing and music by Bang and Smash


Sharp-witted and fast to learn, Claire is an extraordinarily versatile writer with a keen eye for detail. Always eager to take on a new challenge, Claire brings skill, expertise, and unmatched enthusiasm to every project she works on.

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