Category: Content Marketing

A crash course in B2B blog writing | B2B Content Tuesday

Posted on by The Radix Team

B2B blog writing has changed. Once thought of as filler, or a cheap SEO tactic, blogs are now a cornerstone of B2B content marketing; an efficient, flexible way for B2B marketers to self-publish content of all kinds. But with 4.4 million posts published every day, how do you make yours stand out?

We could talk about blogs all day – so when we were asked to cover the topic in our B2B Content Tuesdays, we jumped at the chance. The only problem was squeezing everything into a short webinar and Q&A. So in this blog, we’ll dive a little deeper, and give you a crash course in writing a great B2B blog post. We’ll also answer some popular blog writing questions.

B2B blog writing: four tricks of the trade

1. Know your audience

Ask yourself: Who is my reader? Or, more importantly, who is NOT my reader?

When you aim your content towards a niche audience, it’s more likely to be relevant and helpful to your target readers. And it’s easier to explain the value you’ll deliver. A broad-brush approach is tempting because it addresses a larger audience, but super-specific content makes a more direct appeal to the community you really want. As a result, it’s more likely to actually get read.

2. Provide clear value for the reader

Ask yourself: What will this audience get from reading? Why would they want to spend their time?

Ideally, every blog post should provide some kind of utility; it could be advice, information or something they can use. It might even be fun. But you need to know what that value is, so you can to make it abundantly clear to your reader too.

For example, we’ve got a blog post that provides a basic blog structure, so you can write more easily and provide that value in a clear, logical way. Pretty useful, eh?

3. Nail the voice and tone

Ask yourself: Would our audience recognise our blog posts a mile off? (Even if you covered up the branding?)

Think about how your blog sounds. If your market is crowded with similar brands saying similar things, one way to differentiate your content is to have a distinct voice – a way of handling language that’s uniquely you. Velocity Partners does a great job of this (a little profanity goes a long way).

Especially where you’re looking to establish subject matter experts within your own business, a bylined blog can allow you to show a bit more character in your writing.

4. Start strong, and prepare the ground

Ask yourself: Have I demonstrated the first three tricks in the first 30 words?

The introduction is the most important part of your blog post – it defines whether the reader will spend their time and often, in social posts, whether they’ll even click.

So, ensure the value of reading is obvious, make it obvious you know your reader inside out, and help the reader get to know your style. In doing so, you lay a solid foundation to build on.

Your B2B blog writing questions answered

Q: How do I make super-technical topics more approachable without inflating word count?

David: “Long blog posts are more common than you think – and there’s a time and place for them. So if it’s realistic that your reader will sit down and read all of it, there’s no problem with 2,000, 3,000, even 5,000-word pieces of content.

“However, I would suggest making it clearly structured and easy to navigate, with clickable links to each section so the reader can scan easily and jump to the bit they need.

“Or, if you want to break it up into accessible chunks, turn the topic into a series of blog posts. These can then be wrapped up into an eBook, so you have a longer asset built of shorter, standalone articles that can be read independently or together.

“And there’s no need to stick with PDFs – other formats can provide granular data about who actually read what. Using something like Turtl can help you break down your reader’s experience – from what, when and where they are reading, to average reading times.”

Q: What is the ‘three-act structure’ in blog writing?

David: “The three-act structure is one of the most basic aspects of storytelling; essentially, each story has to have a beginning, middle and end. Anything that follows the natural shape of a story feels familiar and satisfying.

“You’ll likely follow this structure, so the first 25% should be setting the stage. Something exciting happens, that the hero has to respond to, so about a quarter of the way through, the hero ventures out into a new world.

“In the next half (from 25% to 75%), your hero faces a series of challenges. In most stories, the stakes get higher and higher – and around the 50% mark, there’s usually an “oh shit” moment. The twist usually happens here also, and what you think is the problem turns out not to be. And at this point, it often seems like the hero won’t win.

“Three-quarters of the way through, the hero finds a new plan and fights back. In the last quarter, there’s a do or die moment, the hero usually wins out, and then you go back to see how the hero has changed now as a result of everything that’s happened.

“Although we’re not writing Hollywood movies, our multipurpose blog structure works in much the same way: set the scene and introduce a challenge, explore potential issues and obstacles, then bring it full circle to see what we’ve learned, and suggest next steps.

“I’ve actually written a whole blog post for B2B Marketing about how to use this structure in B2B content, so do check that out if you’d like to know more.”

Q: A lot of blogs I read are quite long, and often there’s very little in the way of obvious structure. Could subheadings be beneficial – and why?

David: “Absolutely. Subheadings are really important when making content scannable and thinking about SEO.

“You can also make them summarise and interpret the content underneath, so if your reader scans down, they’ll still get value – even without reading content fully.

“When writing subheadings for SEO, the questions function in Google searches can be really helpful. You can see what your audience wants to know and make the questions your subhead. Then, if you’re writing a short, pithy answer, you might end up being the first search result Google picks out.”

Q: The subject I’m writing about has so many technical terms. How do I increase or decrease readability scores?

David: “There are three aspects to complexity in content. Technical specificity is only one of them. So, you might need to think about balancing the complexity of your technical terminology by simplifying the language that surrounds it.

“The water cooler test is a great way to do this. Imagine you are standing by a water cooler, where your engineers or experts are. They’re talking about a problem – and while they’ll use very specific technical terms, the language they put it in will be simple: ‘The vintage tomographer has broken again. I thought the hazmat switch might be jammed so I tried toggling it, and it still wouldn’t work.’ The specifics are technical, but the rest is very readable.

“The vocabulary that you use is only one part of the equation – you also have to think about sentence structure, and the other words you’re using. Try to avoid nominalised verbs, long or list-heavy sentences, and any complicated words that aren’t essential. There should only be one idea per sentence, so you may want to think about splitting longer sentences into two or three smaller ones.”

Q: When I’m writing content in one language and then translating it, the translated copy isn’t always as clear and effective. Do you have any tips?

David: “This is a hard task to get right, and a lot of it depends on the company you’re working with and the budget you have.

“In some circumstances when we work with companies where the content will be delivered multi-lingually, we’re asked to leave out any figurative language, humour or idioms, because they don’t always translate well. Keeping it factual ensures it can be translated at a lower cost using tools already available – Google Translate for example, or another piece of software.

“Other times, the process is more complicated. I once worked for a company where we would write it in English; it would be translated by a specialist, then reviewed by a subject matter expert in the target language and then edited by a journalist in the target language. It’s not cheap, but the results were great, and you had a lot more freedom with the content.

“Usually, the process is somewhere in between those two extremes. A human translator will likely understand most colloquialisms and can translate them easily. But this kind of translation is often software-assisted, and chargeable by the word, so it’s more about not using too many synonyms to say the same thing, and making sure UX stays streamlined – as other languages often use more letters than English.”

Thanks again to everyone who attended the webinar, and took part in the Q&A. Here’s the full discussion:

How to find the right voice and tone for your B2B content | B2B Content Tuesday

Posted on by The Radix Team

Whatever B2B content you’re creating, whether its a technical white paper or a chatty video script, you’ll likely find yourself making decisions around “tone of voice”.

But at Radix, we think “tone of voice” is a bit of a misleading concept. Because voice and tone are actually two separate (but related) concepts.

After all, your brand’s voice might be approachable, friendly or even fun. But it’s unlikely you’ll be cracking jokes in a legal contract. Nor would you pop a zinger in a letter of apology. (I mean, you could, but the outcome might not be fantastic.)

A clear personality is important. But brands that stick too rigidly to one “tone of voice” for all their content run the risk of sounding insensitive, monotone, or oblivious to the reader’s needs at key moments.

We went into more detail in our B2B Content Tuesdays webinar series – sharing how voice and tone relate to each other, with some tips to help you find an appropriate voice for your own B2B content. Here are some of the highlights – and you’ll find a video of the full discussion at the bottom of this post.

So, what is the difference between voice and tone?

There’s a clear way to define the two:

Your voice is how you express your brand’s personality to the world. Not necessarily information about your company history, but how you want to make customers feel about you. You voice is your character; it doesn’t change.

Your tone is how you talk to your reader once you’ve taken account of their situation, their state of mind and the intent of the content – so it’s going to change depending on the context.

Think about it like this: when you go to the pub, you’ll chat to your friends a certain way. And when you’re in a meeting with your boss the next morning, you’ll likely adopt a more professional manner – but you’re not going to develop a new regional accent. You are still you; your voice hasn’t changed. Only your tone has.

Three tips for finding your B2B voice

1. Get specific about your character

“We want to sound human.”

When we run our voice and tone messaging workshop, this phrase comes up a lot. But with nearly eight billion people in the world, it’s annoyingly vague.

So, think about the specific character your brand would play a story – and in this case, the story of your customer. Are you the loyal companion or the cheerleader? Are you the warrior fighting alongside them on the battlefield? Or maybe you’re the know-it-all – the unashamedly clever one your customers can’t live without.

2. Lean on your thesaurus

“We want to sound professional, but friendly – an approachable expert.”

This is another one we hear all the time. But what does “approachable expert” even mean? Arguably, Sir David Attenborough and Gok Wan both fall under that umbrella, but there’s a world of difference between how they sound.

This requires you to be specific in a different way. Think about what kind of professional you want to be: skilled, competent, experienced, methodical or something else. And there’s a multitude of ways to be friendly – are you chummy, neighbourly, cordial or helpful?

3. Opposites don’t attract; they confuse

“We want to sound reliable, but exciting.”

Values like these sit at opposite ends of the spectrum, which means it’s hard for your brand to convincingly evoke both emotions at once. You need to prioritise one over the other.

Drilling into what you think about your brand is critical. That’s why we’ve put together a prototype “voice wheel” to help…

The Radix voice wheel

Radix voice wheelThe voice wheel is a visual aid we’ve developed to provoke discussion in workshops and help marketers to make clearer choices about brand voice.

It works similarly to a colour wheel. Each word is subtly different from its neighbour – and it’s hard to embody two words that sit opposite each other.

The wheel can broadly be divided into four quadrants. The top-left reflects how you behave, the top-right suggests new ideas, the bottom-left is related to your trust and track record, while the bottom-right is knowledge-based strengths.

It should help you make some of the harder choices, and focus on what you want your brand’s voice to be (and, just as importantly, not to be). It works best when you use it as a team.

Here are a couple of exercises to try:

  1. Quickly circle three or four words that reflect how people might feel about your company. Then, compare results. Look for ones you agree on, ones where your views oppose, or any particular groupings that highlight a certain theme.
  2. Where there are some areas you’re not sure about, pick two word-pairs, and decide which quadrant your brand comes under. For example, if you highlight “methodical” and “inspirational”, as well as “informative” and “hands-on”, use those as X and Y axes, and ask where each person in the discussion would place you, and why.

(If you’d like a copy of the voice wheel prototype, feel free to get in touch.)

Here’s the webinar and discussion in full; thanks to everyone who attended. You can catch up on all our other B2B Content Tuesday sessions on our YouTube channel.

A quick guide to ebooks and white papers | B2B Content Tuesday

Posted on by The Radix Team

White papers and ebooks are a staple in every B2B content marketer’s repertoire. And although the two formats serve slightly different purposes, the terms are often used interchangeably. Our senior writer John Kerrison  memorably dubbed them “the content version of Nick Nolte and Gary Busey” – distinctly different, yet often confused.

(If you want to find out more about these formats, we’ve written a few pieces about their differences, how to write them, and where they should fit in your content marketing strategy.)

But with a host of new content formats emerging – from new PDF alternatives like Turtl to longer, more interactive blog posts – the role of ebooks and white papers are changing. Although still strong, they’re possibly not the catch-all choice they once were. And that has implications for content creators.

So, as part of our B2B Content Tuesdays webinar series, David shared his top tips for writing white papers and ebooks for today’s readers – highlighting what they expect, how to deliver it, and a few critical questions to ask yourself before you publish. Then he answered some popular questions on ebook and white paper writing.

You can watch the session in full at the bottom of this page, or read this summary…

A modern ebook, for a modern age

Once the prettiest sibling of the long content formats, the ebook is changing somewhat as new formats emerge. Attention is harder to come by – so to lock your readers in, you need to demonstrate clear value, right away.

The title and subheader will do a lot of that heavy lifting. If you introduce the value right from the off, it’s more likely the right reader will engage. They can see exactly what they will get from the resource, so will be happier to spend their precious time reading it.

The introduction is also a crucial time to build rapport with your reader. As formats become more interactive and engaging, there’s no room for stuffy writing (not that there ever was). Instead, stick to snappy, clear copy, which shows you understand their challenges and clearly sets out how they will benefit from investing their time.

As you continue, don’t make your sections daunting. Instead, move quickly through sections of around 300 words, perhaps across two pages, leaving room for the designer to implement boxouts, quotes and even videos.

Every section should be easily scannable and follow a linear story. After all, your reader may not have the time to commit to fully reading it. With clear sections – and headers that provide summaries and interpretations of the contents – even the quickest of flick-throughs can be valuable.

And if you can, think of each section as a story in its own right, which can be atomised into smaller content pieces. A big ebook, for example, could be the foundation for three or four spinoff promotional blogs. And rich media can be linked in and out – spreading across the internet a whole lot faster than a denser block of ebook copy.

The new rules of writing white papers

White papers have never been a format known for bold design choices, so they haven’t changed as significantly with the rise of new content formats. However, as content marketing has become increasingly popular, there’s a deluge of white papers out there now – many of them gated, and many not delivering value.

This combination has created a lack of trust for many readers. After all, no-one wants to sit down to read an in-depth piece, only to find it’s just repurposed desk research, or purely focused on selling them something.

So, you need to make it clear what your reader will learn from your white paper: the problem it will solve, and how it will help them to do that. Start by being clear and upfront, addressing a specific person, and their particular real-world challenge.

Then, make the information you’re offering easily accessible. Traditionally, white papers include plenty of statistics, advice and information, but this needs to be easy to get to – not hidden halfway down a paragraph. Once again, using informative, clear subheaders is vital, summarising rather than describing the content.

However, not all traditions are helpful. Where white papers are typically written in a very formal, academic way, this can turn your readers off. Although you may be writing about complicated technical specifics, there’s no reason for your writing to be overly complex.

Using the technical jargon of your reader – their language, if you like – is important, but using simple sentence structure, preferring the active voice, and avoiding buzzwords will make your content infinitely more enjoyable to read, and that’s never a bad thing. We’ve even written a whole blog about it.

And finally, three key questions to ask yourself:

What does my reader need?

Think about your reader. What do they need? What challenges are they facing? Are you being targeted and realistic about who your audience is? Will they have the time?

Is this the right format?

Take the time to consider your options. Will this be printed, or viewed online? Are you able to break down the information into scannable pieces? Can it be atomised into smaller chunks?

Am I providing value?

Make sure you’re producing something genuinely helpful, that delivers results. Can they find this out anywhere else? Do you need more research or subject matter expertise? What sections are most important – and what do you need to measure? Is it readable? Has it been reviewed thoroughly?

Your ebook and white paper questions answered

Q: How do I measure the success of my white paper or ebook?

David: “As a writer, finding out how successful your copy is can be a challenge. At that stage of the funnel, a lot of what we hear from clients is anecdotal. They’ll mention when the leads start coming through, or the white paper starts to play an active role in the sales process, as a conversation starter.

“There are likely plenty of other ways to measure how successful your work is though. If you have any suggestions, tweet us at @Radixcom – and be sure to use the #b2btuesdays hashtag.”

Q: How important is it that readers read the whole white paper?

David: “Let’s be brutally honest: even for a professional white paper writer, you’re unlikely to get people to read every word. But, from a writer’s perspective, being realistic about that fact is a really important part of the process, and a guide to how you should structure the piece.

“For example, because most readers will just skim through, your headers should help deliver the message. Subheadings shouldn’t just say ‘Conclusions’ or ‘Objectives’ – they should actually summarise the information.

“Then, your reader can get through the logical narrative quickly. Even without reading all the text, they can still find the resource valuable. You’re telling the story in the headers, then the dense stuff that makes up the content really acts as supporting information for each stage of the story.”

Q: Can you recommend any other platforms similar to Turtl?

David: “Turtl has been a real eye-opener. We used it ourselves for the Barriers to Great B2B Content survey we created earlier this year, and it was great – the process was really easy. I definitely recommend looking into it if your budget will allow it. And they’re lovely, helpful people.

“As for other platforms, SlideShare can still be useful. Embedding them on LinkedIn – portrait rather than landscape – can give your readers something to flick through with a clear narrative story.

“Velocity Partners have a content format called Velocity String, which I believe is HTML5. Again, it shows the importance of giving the reader a chance to navigate interactively through the story, and get the data about what they do.”

Thanks again to everyone who attended the webinar, and took part in the Q&A. You can watch the full discussion here:

 

And if that doesn’t fully sate your needs, there’s more. We’ve created a playlist of all our B2B Content Tuesdays webinar recordings on YouTube.

Will your B2B blog post perform better as a LinkedIn article? Let’s investigate.

Posted on by The Radix Team

It must’ve been four years ago when I first heard that B2B blog writing was on its way out. But here we are in 2021 and I’m writing this, a blog.

Of course blogs didn’t die. But they did change.

In fact, B2B blog content has only gotten longer and more versatile, with the average blog post now hitting 1269 words. And of the 94% of B2B marketers using the format, many seem to be spending more time than ever ensuring their blogs provide genuine value and, in turn, deliver stronger results.

To get those results, though, you need to put your content in the right place.

The B2B content dilemma: dedicated blogging vs LinkedIn articles

Where should your blog posts live to perform at their best? It’s not the simple question it once was.

In B2B, you have a couple of strong options. You can publish content on your dedicated business blog, or as an article hosted natively by LinkedIn.

Let’s weigh up the pros and cons of both approaches.

The dedicated B2B blog: expertise where it counts

For many businesses, an on-site blog is more than just a means to share thought leadership and respond to the latest industry trends; it’s an SEO powerhouse.

Even back in 2017, our Creative Director David noted that search algorithms were increasingly rewarding quality content. And that’s as true as ever for your blog content today – especially since Google E-A-T and YMYL came on the scene.

What is Google E-A-T – and why should a B2B marketer care?

According to Google, “E-A-T” stands for “expertise, authority, and trustworthiness”. And that’s what your content needs to successfully rank where you want it to.

It’s also one of the three guidelines used by Google’s human search evaluators when assessing whether its algorithms are doing their job properly. It’s easy to get lost down a rabbit hole here, so let me break it down for you: E-A-T works to stop Google from serving you rubbish content.

Today, approximately 86% of content marketers include blogs as part of their marketing strategy. And when companies who do so are likely to get 97% more links to their sites compared to those who don’t, it’s easy to see the appeal from a marketing perspective.

The proof of the pudding

But remember, your blog is also evidence of your expertise; it’s proof that you have the knowledge to really deliver the goods. When a technical expert publishes a blog sharing their expertise, it’s more convincing than just saying how smart they are.

A dedicated blog is also a means to take ownership of your content, giving you full authority over how it looks and feels. And because it sits on your website, with your look and feel, there’s an immediate association between the quality of your content and your brand.

So, if it’s easy to just share a URL to your dedicated blog, why on earth would you post your content natively on LinkedIn instead?

The LinkedIn article: building networks and conversations

Just to clarify, as this can get a little confusing: when we talk about posting a LinkedIn article, we don’t mean lifting your blog’s URL and sharing it socially. We mean your blog is published on the LinkedIn platform – that’s where it lives, and it’s tied specifically to your account.

(If you happen to remember LinkedIn Pulse, that’s exactly what I’m referring to. Except they’ve now retired the Pulse name and integrated its features into the standard LinkedIn experience.)

Anyway, before we go on, let’s pull out some statistics. Mull over these for a moment:

What’s more, 91% of decision-makers consider it the place to find valuable content. And it’s not hard to see why.

LinkedIn encourages awareness, networking, and discourse. It’s easy to share your opinion, and it’s democratic too – it must be one of the only places online where you’re likely to see an enterprise CEO discussing content with, say, a graduate developer in a public forum.

So, back to our original question: what’s better – posting your blog as a LinkedIn article, or on your website?

What’s best on LinkedIn: native content vs external links

On LinkedIn, you’re serving people content where they already are. They don’t need to click out to your site to read your blog. What’s more, you’re creating opportunities to build your personal network, and even sell socially.

For example, when people comment on your content, they create visibility for you on their own network – often, likeminded people, in similar sectors and roles. This helps your content to extend its reach, and with luck, attract the kind of lookalike customers you want to appeal to.

Most importantly, it plays to how LinkedIn decides who sees what. In May 2020, LinkedIn engineers kindly published the details of their new algorithm, and for some, it held a few nasty surprises. You see, LinkedIn largely determines content visibility based on the amount of time people spend interacting with it – that includes likes, comments, and shares. Now, this has a knock-on effect: it means external links will be penalised. Why? Because they pull users away from LinkedIn and decrease the time they spend on the post.

Ouch. That’s a score for posting content natively if ever there was one.

But then again, with LinkedIn articles, the content is associated with you – an individual – and there’s no immediate indication that it’s tied to your brand. Even with a powerful call-to-action, there’s still no guarantee they’ll click through to your site. Chances are, they’re in browse mode, and they just want something to read while eating lunch at their desk. And that means they’re not being reeled into a buying journey.

And maybe you risk your content getting lost in a sea of voices, because, hey, if anyone can post an article here, what’s to say they’re the real deal?

Can we have the best of both worlds? I think so.

Is there any reason you can’t just use your blog in two places at once?

Well, having hunted around online for a definitive answer – all for the sake of this blog, of course – I concluded that there’s no harm in doing both. Albeit, posting two ever-so-different versions of the same blog.

The relentlessly helpful John Espirian covers this approach really well (both in a LinkedIn article and on his blog, of course). But very briefly, here’s how it works:

First, publish the full-fat version of your blog as you normally would, on your website. This gives you all the benefits I mentioned earlier, like SEO authority, brand association, and greater control over how it looks and feels. Then, for optimal visibility, share it on your preferred social media platforms.

Next, create an abridged version of your final draft. One that delivers the same value but isn’t likely to supersede your original post in Google’s rankings. Not necessarily because duplicate content can score you poorly, but because – as Google’s John Muller testifies – its algorithm will always try and promote the best matching page to a user’s search, and you want them to find your site first.

Once you’ve done that, publish your second draft as an article on LinkedIn where, with any luck, you’ll reap the benefits of a larger audience and maybe get some killer conversation going too.

You do you.

Where do you prefer to post your blog content? Does our research line up with your experiences, or is there a smarter way to solve this puzzle? Or maybe we’ve got this whole LinkedIn business totally wrong? Let us know.

You can tweet us at @radixcom, pop us an email at [email protected], or join the conversation over on (where else?) our LinkedIn page.

B2BQ&A 113: What’s the best B2B content EVER?

Posted on by The Radix Team

If you’re looking for the very best examples of B2B marketing content, you’ve come to the right place. Because – after a whirlwind of nominations, shortlisting, group stages, and voting – we’ve whittled them down. Nineteen contenders. Five finalists.

And, ultimately, one winner.

In a departure from our usual format, this B2BQ&A tries to ask a question posed by our host: “Just what is the best B2B content of all time?”

Along the way, we find plenty of B2B inspiration, cast an eye over audiences’ changing content preferences, and hear from expert judges like Andrea Clatworthy, Robyn Collinge, Irene Triendl,  Doug Kessler, Katie Colbourne, and Rishi Dastidar… as well as our co-host for this episode, Rockee.io founder (and recently revealed sausage enthusiast) Matt Laybourn.

After about 80 episodes, it’s also our final podcast hosted by Radix Creative Director David McGuire, who’s leaving us to embark on a new adventure. (There’s plenty more B2BQ&A to come, though, courtesy of our new-look hosting team. Wait and see!)

You’ll find a full transcript of this episode at the end of this post… just keep scrolling.

So what can we learn from the best 19 examples of B2B content?

You can find the full list of nominees right here. And, reviewing the vote, here’s what we discovered:

1. In the end, great content wins

Yes, AI-driven filler is making search engine results a bit unreliable lately. But when audiences do find content with true value, they’re all the more likely to appreciate it.

As Matt says: “As much as there’s a there’s a shift in the landscape with Google search results, people will find and gravitate towards really good content… like: I found this awesome thing, and I want to share it with you.”

2. All content needs to earn the audience’s time

Judging the podcast category, Irene says: “There is actually something quite arrogant in assuming people are going to want to listen to you and your guests talk on and on for an hour, or however long the podcast is. So if you do that, I think you owe it to your audience to have something interesting to say and to be really well prepared. And that you’re offering them something that they can’t get elsewhere faster or better. And this is ultimately true for all content, really. People’s time is precious, and you can’t take it for granted that they are going to give it to you.”

Gulp. We’re doing our best, Irene. Honest.

3. Authenticity wins loyalty

The high number of podcasts among the nominees is testament to the rise of community marketing, and the power of getting people to identify with your content.

Matt puts this down to authenticity, saying: “People want to hear a natural conversation, not someone kind of regurgitating, I don’t know, frameworks or the best practice. It’s got to be an authentic thing.”

4. A little wit can even the odds

No spoilers, but among famous players like Adobe Marketing Cloud, GE, and Volvo Trucks, smaller names can really hold their own – all they need is a fresh, witty way to express themselves. Whether it’s a financial blog about Chicken McNuggets, a rhyming explainer video, or – yes – a dating app for cows, content is a realm where a bright idea can carry the day.

Speaking about Iron Mountain’s entry, Rishi says: “Wit and whimsy are rarely used tools in this world. On this evidence, one wonders why.”

Want to skip to the exciting bits? Here’s where you can find them…

4:22 – Best B2B Blog Post

8:52 – Best B2B Podcast

13:20 – Best B2B Long-Form Content

17:20 – Best B2B Video Ads

20:25 – Best Wildcard Content

24:21 – Grand Final: The Best B2B Content of All Time

Next time, if could be your question we’re answering

If you have a question about B2B content writing, we absolutely want to hear it. Send us a voice memo at [email protected].

And if there are any other thoughts you’d like to share (or if you’d just like to say hello to the podcast’s new hosts), you can connect with us on LinkedIn and Twitter: @radixcom.

How to listen: 

Credits and thanks

Finally, David has a massive list of goodbye-and-thanks: everyone he’s interviewed or co-hosted with, everyone who’s listened, and everyone who’s sent us a copywriting pro-tip. Thanks to Gareth at Bang and Smash for sound editing heroics, and Hannah Beech for super podcast branding. And especially thanks to Emily King and Fiona Campbell-Howes for birthing this podcast and passing it on. Thank you.

OK. You know we promised you that transcript…?

Transcript: B2BQ&A 113 – What is the best B2B content of all time?

David McGuire: What is the best example of B2B content, ever?

Matt Laybourn: That’s a great question. Let’s ask the very best 10 B2B judges that we can find – and the voting public – to find out.

David: Hello, Listener, and welcome to B2BQ&A, the podcast where we go in search of an answer to your question about B2B content writing.

This is episode 113. And as this year marks the 10th anniversary of our podcast, we’re taking the very unusual step of trying to answer a question from me: “Just what is the best bit of B2B content, ever?”

To help me I’m joined by one of the judges from our expert panel. From rockee.io and the Sausage Factory podcast. It’s Matt Laybourn. Matt, hi! Welcome.

Matt: Thank you so much. It’s a pleasure to be here.

David: The Sausage Factory, I’ve got to ask you about that. That’s a new podcast, right? Love the name. Are you just talking about sausages a lot?

Matt: (Laughs) Yeah, so the reason behind it being called the Sausage Factory is because our perception – at least me and my co-host Mark Willis – our perception is we’re in a cycle of endlessly making content at the moment and not worrying about the quality of it. You know, the rise of AI and all of that type of stuff. So things have become a bit of a sausage factory. But the interesting side addition that I didn’t expect for this, is we now have this weird Venn Diagram of B2B marketers and sausage enthusiasts. And it’s kind of this little interesting crossover

David: That Venn diagram is a circle?

Matt: Yeah, you’d think so, but there’s been some discerning comments about certain types of sausages, which, again, is not something we expected to talk about on the pod.

David: Well, you’re very well qualified then if it’s a podcast about content that stands out from the run-of-the-mill because that’s what we’re trying to get to the bottom of today.

Before we go any further, I should probably introduce myself, shouldn’t I? My name’s David McGuire. I’m Creative Director at Radix Communications, which is the B2B tech writing agency. And the reason I get to take the self-indulgent step of posing my own question for this B2BQ&A is that after eight years, this is my last time in the host’s chair of this podcast.

Don’t worry, I’m handing over to a fabulous rotating roster of hosts: George, Katy, Steve, and if you’re very lucky, Kieran. And we have many more brilliant episodes in the pipeline for you. So don’t worry, there is more B2BQ&A to come, just not with me.

So if you do have any comments or suggestions, or you’d just like to welcome the new hosts, you can find Radix on LinkedIn or Twitter.

Announcer: @radixcom.

David: And if you want the show to answer your question on a future episode, record a quick voice note and send it by email.

Announcer: [email protected].

David: Right. That’s enough prevarication. Let’s get on with the serious business of finding the best B2B content of all time.

First, I should start by saying thank you to everybody who put forward their favorite examples of B2B content. We took all of your nominations, and we put them in front of a brilliant panel of 10 B2B marketing experts, as well as senior Radix writers, who helped us to create five category shortlists: best blog, podcast, long-form content, video ad, and a wildcard category for entries that kind of defied description.

We had a public vote, and the winner of each category went forward to the Grand Final, the voting for which closed just a few minutes ago. And in a few moments, we’ll reveal who won. Matt, are you ready?

Matt: I am very ready. I’m very excited. Let’s do this.

David: You sure?

Matt: Yeah. Come on let’s go.

David: Okay, let’s go.

Voiceover: Best B2B Blog Post.

David: Blogs are such a staple of B2B content marketing, it’s no surprise we’ve got lots of strong contenders here. So thanks to Andrea Clatworthy at Fujitsu and Robyn Collinge of WeTransfer who helped our Head of Copy, Matt, and Senior Copywriter George compile the shortlist.

Now, they very particularly enjoyed Beam’s How to Write a B2B Blog Intro that isn’t Boring AF and Hank Barnes of Gartner’s The Tyranny of More, but ultimately the four they selected were as follows:

  • Andy Raskin’s The Greatest Sales Deck I’ve Ever Seen,
  • Assure Hedge’s The Chicken McNuggets’ secret ingredient is not what you think…,
  • Tom Roach on The Wrong and the Short of It,
  • and Velocity Partners’ A Stakeholder Through the Heart.

So Matt, having been writing blogs for a while it feels to me like they’ve changed in nature a lot over the last few years in B2B; that they’ve become more of a mainstay of the content strategy where once they might have been SEO filler, I guess. Is that something that you kind of recognise? Why do you think it might be?

Matt: Yes, it’s an interesting mix at the moment, because you know, things like programmatic AI are starting to kind of make the pendulum swing the other way a little bit again, because we’re getting this kind of overpopulation of essentially facts-based articles. They don’t have editorial quality to them, they’re just telling the reader what they probably were looking for, for that search term.

And it’s funny enough was talking about this earlier, but some of that is fine. Some of that is fine, someone wants a very simple answer to a simple question. But then you start to lose the quality of, you know, where does the editorial come in, where does the tone of voice the brand, the real kind of in-depth, exciting solution-based content to those terms really start to come in.

So, blogs are going through a bit of a whirlwind. And I think it’s harder for brands at the moment, just because of the way Google is trying to figure out how to deal with essentially an influx of content. The barrier to entry to make content could not be lower at the moment, so how do we discern the difference between good, bad and ugly, I guess, at the moment. And Google doesn’t quite know that yet, because I’ve seen so many marketers going, “I just see bad content on search result pages at the moment.”

The battle to be relevant and to be interesting is getting harder and harder. So I don’t know – I’m kind of thinking the pendulum swinging around a little bit and doesn’t quite know where to land at the moment.

David: I think, until Google can sort that out, it might be social and other places, that really will help to reward the best blog content, I suppose. The more there is of this kind of wide base of low-quality content, the more that the real imagination has to stand out.

And I think that’s something that we’ve seen in the winner – with all of these blog posts – but in particular, in the winner, which is Assure Hedge – I think they’re now Alt 21 – which is The Chicken McNuggets secret ingredient is not what you think… which was voted the best B2B content of 2021 by our listeners, and it’s won again here.

Andrea Clatworthy said, “Fab this! Quite long, but a great story, which I enjoyed reading.” And Robyn Collinge agreed. She said, “I bloody love a metaphor to help me understand complex things.” And it’s super to see a blog post that’s built around the kind of storytelling that AI will never be able to do. And people actually recognising the value of that

Matt: A hundred percent. And I think that’s the interesting thing. As much as there’s a bit of a shift in the landscape with Google search results and things like that, people will find and gravitate towards really good content. So social groups, Slack groups, internal sharing groups, and things like that as well, they’ll be like, “I found this awesome thing, and I want to share it with you.”

So the best will still rise above it. We’ve just got a bit of a slight traffic issue in the short term. But normal service will be resumed I’m sure, don’t worry.

David: So congratulations to you, Assure Hedge, the best B2B blog of all time.

Announcer: Best B2B Podcast.

David: Loads of nominations we got here, which is a bit of a surprise given that when you talk about B2B content, podcasts might not be the first thing you think of. But I guess it is all about getting that community who’ll identify with your content, stick up for it, and end up nominating it for things.

Matt, you’re a podcaster yourself and you judged this category, along with Doug Kessler of Velocity Partners and Irene Triendl of Say What? So, what did you think?

Matt: It was a really interesting category. The thing that I was listening out for… so I kind of did my own research recently to get my own pod up and running and go, “What are the things I really like in a podcast?” And one word always comes up, and it’s authenticity.

So a lot of people listen to podcasts on the go on the move – trains, buses, whatever it may be – and they want to hear something that is kind of a natural conversation, not someone kind of regurgitating, I don’t know, frameworks or the best practice. It’s got to be an authentic thing between two or three people. And that’s what I think the very best in this category do for us.

David: Irene also sent us some audio and she found this category pretty tough to judge, I think.

Irene: I have to say, this has been a lot harder than I thought; it’s a tough category. I think for me, the key thing is, there is actually something quite arrogant in assuming that people are going to want to listen to you and your guests talk on and on for an hour, or however long the podcast is. So if you do that, I think you do owe it to your audience to have something interesting to say and to be really well prepared. And that you’re offering them something that they can’t get elsewhere, or can’t get elsewhere faster or better. And this is ultimately true for all content, really. People’s time is precious, and you can’t take it for granted that they are going to give it to you.

David: Out of a long list, there were quite a few that caught the judges’ eye. I think that between you, you commended Agencyphonics by Cactus, Everyone Hates Marketers by Louis Grenier, Uncensored CMO by Jon Evans. And I know Doug Kessler was particularly a fan of the Electronic Propaganda Society by Mathew Sweezey.

But ultimately, it came down to:

  • Adobe’s Audio White Papers for Marketing, voiced by Malcolm *actual* McDowell,
  • Gasp’s Call to Action,
  • Help Scout with Jay Acunzo’s Against the Grain (which is kind of a video program as well, but that’s fine),
  • and Peep Laja’s How to Win.

And by an absolute landslide, Call to Action took it.

So congratulations to Gasp. That was nominated by Fractional CMO, Graham Fraser, and Doug said…

Doug Kessler: Fun and sweary and it’s got a fun voice to it. Good guests list. They package it up well as a show with segments and everything – I like that.

David: Matt, this one stood out for you as well, didn’t it?

Matt: Yeah, it really did. I’m a massive Rolling Stones fan. So the fact that he had “I can’t get no call to action” as a theme tune… Well, that’s not the sole reason, obviously but okay, I’m interested from the very first 30 seconds, you’ve got me. But no, again, it was everything I love about a podcast where it’s just authentic good conversation.

So I listened to a really amazing one the other week with Chris Paouros. And it was just it really got to me. Really powerful conversation, learning more about the person behind the marketer as well. So I loved how that transcended just kind of the normal marketing conversation. So a really deserved winner.

David: Yeah, I’m glad you called that one out because, Chris Paouros, among other things, runs Proud Lilywhites. And as Spurs fan myself, and someone who you know LGBT Spurs fans are among my very favorite people in the world. You know, always deeply grateful for what Chris does. So to actually hear her interviewed was super.

So brilliant, well done to Gasp and the Call to Action podcast, you are officially the best B2B podcast of all time.

Announcer: Best Long-Form B2B Content.

David: So classically, when you think of B2B content, it’s long-form stuff that often you’ll think about. But this category had, in the end, no white papers and no ebooks on the shortlist. (Thanks to Maureen Blandford, founder of Serendipitus, and Jason Miller of Tyk, for helping Katy Eddy compile this shortlist for us.) Having said that, obviously, we had good examples, but I think there were fewer than they were expecting. Do you think there might be a reason why we might, relatively speaking, see fewer examples in the long-form category?

Matt: I think it’s just so much harder to maintain people’s attention, is the really simple answer. We’re in an environment now where you have seconds to get someone’s attention. So much emphasis is on messaging and short-form at the moment. So for something long-form, that someone could sit there for more than 15 minutes, if I’m honest, to stand out, all of a sudden this is a very challenging category. And the best really have to have something quite incredible to keep people hooked.

David: I think you’re right. And often the thing is that because they’re about something very specific as well, they might not ever reach a very wide audience. I think Andrea Clatworthy made the point that sometimes the best content is so super targeted, it’s not even necessarily in the public domain. You know, a lot of these things will be gated. So it’s probably quite understandable that we had relatively few to choose from.

But we did have some good nominees, and the judges particularly liked After the Virus by Cognizant, but ultimately the three that they picked and agreed on, were:

  • Ahrefs’ The Beginner’s Guide to SEO,
  • Maxon Motor, their product catalogue,
  • and Velocity Partners’ The search for meaning in B2B marketing.

Now the vote in this category was really close; there were two votes between first and third place.

The winner was Ahrefs and Matt, this was actually your nomination wasn’t it?

Matt: Have I tipped the balance with my vote here? Yeah, it’s rationale behind it is going back to this point: it’s got to be something pretty incredible to keep you hooked. And this is a piece of content I go back to time and time again as my source of authority and credibility because it’s just an incredibly in-depth, clever, well-written, well-structured guide on how to set up fundamentals in SEO. And it sounds like a boring subject, but so many people must have to go back to this and go, “Okay now I’m gonna jump to this chapter. I’m gonna go to that chapter.” And I’m kind of a weird sucker for content UX as well. And the way they just have everything displayed perfect on the page, they have social proof, excellent categorisation blending in with videos infographics, imagery, and really good, high-quality, authoritative, written content. It’s an absolute treat.

David: And Katy, our Senior Copywriter here agreed with you, she said, “This huge guide could have been overwhelming, but mercifully, it’s not. The writing’s really accessible but without skimping on detail. It’s easy to navigate. And it’s visually clean with cute icons and useful diagrams. For Ahrefs, this format is easy to revisit and update when best practice inevitably changes. And it’s simple for readers to revisit the relevant bits whenever they want a refresher.” Just as you’ve done. So I think you’re both well agreed on that.

So congratulations to Ahrefs, your Beginner’s Guide to SEO is officially the best long-form B2B content of all time.

Announcer: Best B2B Video Ads.

David: Okay. I mean, this is always the eye-catching one because when you think of like, when B2B gets creative, when it gets humorous, when it sparks emotion – it’s often short videos that we’re talking about.

So we’re really grateful to Joel Harrison, Editor-in-Chief of B2B Marketing, and Basware’s Katie Colbourne for helping our Head of Development, Kieran compile the shortlist. The judges enjoyed Lenovo’s Metal Review video, but with some conflict over whether that was really B2B, the shortlist came down to:

  • Adobe Marketing Cloud’s Click, Baby Click,
  • GE’s Datalandia – Devamping,
  • Iron Mountain with Iron Mountain Protects Your Backup Tapes,
  • and The Epic Split by Volvo Trucks.

This was the closest category; we actually had a tie in the public vote. So we went back to the judges and found that only one had placed in all three of their top three favorites. And that is Iron Mountain. It was originally nominated by Rishi Dastidar who said, “How do you make *checks notes* storing backup magnetic tapes interesting? Why not try some rhymes and a charming animation style? Wit and whimsy are rarely used tools in this world. On this evidence one wonders why.”

And among the judges, Katie Colbourne agreed she said, “This engaged me quite a bit as it used real-life examples of things we all do and are guilty of. So it had that emotive and connection element. It was also fast-paced, and it was funny from the off.”

What did you think of it, Matt?

Matt: Yeah, I completely agree with those comments. Super engaging. I was kind of wondering what this is at the beginning because you’re like, “Is this gonna be another boring B2B video, please don’t be boring.” And then you’re like, “Okay, this is funny. This is interesting. This is engaging.” But it focused on the problem. It was like, here’s a very clear problem and they’ve gone about it in a really creative way and given it different environments, and then taken it in towards a solution, and it’s absolutely perfect for short-form content, did everything you wanted it to do.

David: It shows that with a bit of thought and a bit of creativity, you can really cut through because there are some big hitters in this category, right? The Epic Split, which is many people’s immediate thing that they think about as great B2B content came third in this category, you know. And so you compete with big hitters like Volvo Trucks or you know Adobe Marketing Cloud who always – and GE – who always do these funny emotional videos, just shows with a bit of thought and a good script, you can really compete on that playing field and stand out.

So, well done Iron Mountain, yours is the best B2B video ad of all time.

Announcer: Best Wildcard Content.

David: Now, some of the nominees didn’t fit neatly into any category. So we created this extra one. Thanks to Rishi Dastidar, who’s Senior Writer at venturethree – and also a darn fine poet – for helping our senior copywriter Steve get to the bottom of this shortlist.

So ultimately, they chose:

  • Drawbotics’ Your Favorite TV Shows Brought to Life With Amazing 3D Floor Plans,
  • Gartner Magic Quadrant – yes, all of it,
  • Hectare Agritech and Tudder,
  • and Turtl’s Kill the PDF campaign.

Matt, Rockee helps marketers to get feedback and understand what people really enjoy about their content. So, with access to that information, do you see new formats, new approaches? If we run this in five or 10 years’ time again, might there be completely different kinds of B2B content? What do you think the future might hold?

Matt: Yeah, it’s really interesting, because we started to get feedback we just simply weren’t expecting, where people are asking for slightly different formats of where things work. So for example, you posted for the digital webinar, or something like that. It’s quite interesting, because people go, “This is too long, I want to see shorter versions of it.” So immediately, you’re getting data there to go, “Look, I can take this into maybe four or five snippets, I can put it into social short form. I can even take it to YouTube short form – I can make something really interesting and engaging when I have a long-form piece of content.”

So there’s a huge evolution happening. And that’s what the audience is asking for. It’s related to something they consume in a snappier format or that goes to the precise problem that they’re trying to solve. So that’s something we’re seeing straight away from Rockee at the moment is there’s a kind of a move away from longer form. So that’s something that’s certainly emerging.

And the other one is around creators as well, that that goes back to that authenticity piece, less around AI at the moment, but people who can, you know, rise up as a profile for their brand. An example is Todd Clouser, who used to be at Refine Labs and is now at lavender.ai. He does an incredible job of just making short comic videos that are related to the problem and the solution of the brand he works for.

So yeah, interesting trends emerging. I think it might gravitate towards those creative formats in the next couple of years, for sure.

David: So more profile for kind of, you know, individual personalities, and potentially more atomisation of bigger content pieces.

Matt: Yeah, a hundred percent. We’re moving to snack form type of stuff and we’re on a diet from long form. And yeah, that’s certainly what the audience is asking for. But it’s very competitive; using feedback is a great way of getting an insight as to which are the most juicy bits that you can focus on.

David: So we took the vote for our wildcard content, and Hectare Agritech and Tudder, which, if you don’t know, is their dating app for cows. Again, it was voted the Best Content of 2019. It ran away with this category once again. And Rishi Dastidar sent some audio to explain why he thought it was well-deserved.

Rishi Dastidar: It’s a very simple idea. The idea of a dating app for animals: cattle and sheep. I love the wit here. It’s a very simple idea, but it’s been executed really well. And that cross-pollination just really does cut through and raises a smile.

David: So well done, Hectare Agritech. Tudder is the best, I guess, B2B dating app of all time?

Announcer: The Grand Final.

David: So this brings us to the moment of truth. We have our five finalists:

  • Assure Hedge: the Chicken McNuggets blog,
  • Gasp with their Call to Action podcast,
  • Ahrefs with their SEO guide,
  • Iron Mountain with their hilarious video,
  • and Tudder, the dating app for cows.

Matt, are you ready to find out what is officially the best B2B content of all time?

Matt: Come on, I can’t wait any longer The suspense is killing me. Let’s do it.

David: Okay.

In third place… we have Hectare Agritech with Tudder.

In second place… it’s Assure Hedge with The Chicken McNuggets secret ingredient is not what you think.

In first place… it’s Gasp with the Call to Action podcast.

I think a few years ago you would never have thought that the best B2B content of all time would be a podcast, would you?

Matt: Definitely not. I don’t think people thought podcasts would ever pick up and no one would listen to a B2B podcast. But love this, I love this winner, thoroughly deserved. It’s real content, real people doing real things.

David: What is it you love about it?

Matt: I’m gonna say authenticity again. It’s real people, you know, having a good conversation, finding out about their experience, how they got to where they are, their expertise, their knowledge, beautifully framed, entertaining. Entertaining is probably another key word; I’d happily listen to it anywhere I go. So, yeah, incredible winner.

David: I mean, obviously, there’s an element to it of: “It’s a public vote, you know.” And with any competition like this, where it’s open, of course, it’s a subjective choice. And, of course, there’s an element of who will get people to vote for you.

But, for me, that’s kind of why podcasts are so good. It’s about getting that community that identify with you. And so the fact that they’ve won, shows the strength of their community, and it shows it’s working, right?

Matt: Yeah. 100%. And that’s what they’re kind of designed for. There are little subsections of all of our various parts of B2B marketing in different markets, and you want to meet up with fellow people who have the same opinions and kind of the same, you know, ambitions and thoughts and things like that. It’s great to see those communities come together, you know, loyal fan base and like good authoritative content. It’s a beautiful mix.

David: Yeah, I think the reason that we have the judges involved in this process, to do the shortlisting, is ultimately, the winner is always going to be subjective; everyone’s going to have a different view. But all of our five finalists – indeed, all of the 19 shortlisted examples – are worthy winners, and hopefully, fairly inspiring examples of good B2B content. And that, ultimately, is what this question was about. It was about you know, finding examples, finding ideas, finding some inspiration. So hopefully, we’ve managed that.

Well done, Gasp. Well done, Giles Edwards. Well done, Call to Action.

So, there you have it, the best B2B content of all time. Thank you to everybody who nominated. Thank you to everybody who voted. Thank you to all our judges. And, of course, thank you, Matt, for joining us to analyse it and go through these with us. I hope it’s been interesting.

Matt: It’s been incredible. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on.

David: And Matt, if people want to hear more from you, or hear the Sausage Factory – experience the sausage – where would they find that?

Matt: So you can find us on any good publishing channel. We’re on Spotify, we’re on Apple podcasts. Or you can visit rockee.io. And we’re very much trying to dissect what does great content look like in modern B2B, over all of those formats. So yeah, come and have a look.

David: Through the medium of tasty sausage snacks, presumably?

Matt: Through sausage-based analogies and jokes. Yes.

David: B2BQ&A will be back soon, albeit without me. I’d like to thank everyone who’s co-hosted over the years, everyone who’s let me badger them with impertinent questions, everyone who’s sent us questions of their own or copywriting pro tips.

I’d especially like to thank Emily King and Fiona Campbell-Howes for starting this fabulous podcast. And most of all, I’d like to thank you listener for joining me this past 80 or so episodes. Until next time, make great content.

David and Matt: Goodbye!

B2BQ&A 107: Which kinds of content work for which B2B audiences?

Posted on by The Radix Team

In this episode of B2BQ&A, we answer a great question from Richard Hatheway, Senior Manager for Ezmeral Marketing and GTM at Hewlett Packard Enterprise.

He asks: “I have influencers, decision-makers and end-users that I have to engage, so how do I determine what type of content to use for those different target audiences?”

And as you’d expect, we’ve put together an all-star podcast to answer.

First, we put Richard’s question to Claire Drumond, Head of Marketing, Jira Software & Agile Solutions at Atlassian. But that’s not all; you’ll also hear from our guest co-host for this episode: Maureen Blandford, Managing Director of B2B Unleashed.

Meanwhile, Matt Binny brings an assortment of tried-and-true copywriting tips, and we get more inclusive writing advice from Ettie Bailey-King.

You can read a full transcript of this episode at the bottom of this page.

Want to figure out what content works best for your audiences?

Briefly, here’s what Claire recommends:

1. Ask your audience

If you want to know what kind of content your audience wants, Claire suggests you simply ask. Not only can you get insights into your content, but it’s also a chance to connect with your customers.

“We have a really robust community,”  Claire says. “Sometimes we will just poll the community and ask for feedback on the content before we actually publish it. And people love to give their feedback; they love to have been mentioned, and they love that we ask.”

2. Tie metrics to outcomes

Monitoring general traffic can help you see how well your content is ranking in Google, and to see if it’s reaching a wider audience. But an even better way to know that content is working is to see if your audiences are inspired to do something.

“If there’s an action that we’re asking that audience to take, we can measure if they’re actually taking that action – whether it be sign up for something, or if it’s just to read the next article,” Claire explains.

After all, you publish content for a reason. If your audience aren’t inspired to act, it’s not doing its job.

3. Think about the person at each funnel stage

If you have the time and resources, you can map what you know about your audience at each stage of their buying journey, and create content to help. But rememeber it may be a different person reading each piece.

“We like to create content for basically every stage of the funnel, and there is a different person that will find that content useful at every stage in the funnel,” says Claire. “We think that buying our products and using our products is a team sport so we make sure that we’re targeting the whole team and not just the buyer.”

What you’ll find in episode 107…

3:11 – Matt Binny shares his favourite copywriting pro tips.

3:55 – We pose Richard Hathaway’s question to Claire Drumond.

16:54 – Maureen Blandford shares her wisdom on content for influencers.

22:35 – Ettie Bailey-King reveals the importance of affirmative language.

Got a question? B2BQ&A will find the answer.

To get your burning B2B content question answered, just send us a voice memo at [email protected]. And if there are any other thoughts you’d like to share, you can find us on Twitter @radixcom.

(The same channels work if there’s a copywriting pro tip you’d like to share.)

How to listen: 

Credits

Podcast editing and music by Bang and Smash.

Transcript: B2BQ&A 107 – Which kinds of content work for which B2B audiences?

Announcer: “I have influencers, decision makers and end users that I have to engage. So how do I determine what type of content to use for those different target audiences?”

Maureen Blandford: I love that question. Let’s ask Claire Drumond from Atlassian.

David McGuire: Hello, listener; you are exceptionally welcome to B2BQ&A, the podcast where we go in search of an answer to your question about B2B content writing. This is episode 107.

Maureen Blandford: In a few moments, Claire Drumond will tell us how Atlassian match different kinds of content to a broad set of audiences. We’ll also get copywriting tips from Matt Binny, and some inclusive writing advice from Eddie Bailey-King.

David McGuire: Before all of that though, some introductions. My name is David McGuire. I’m Creative director at Radix Communications, the B2B writing agency. And I am thrilled to welcome a brilliant guest co-host for this episode. Dialling in all the way from Chicago, it’s the Managing Director of B2B Unleashed, complex sales superfan and stakeholder whisperer par excellence. Maureen Blandford. Maureen, welcome.

Maureen Blandford: Always delighted to be with you all. Thanks for having me.

David McGuire: Thank you for being here. So I think possibly – I have to check this – were you B2B Unleashed last time you were on here, or is this new to the listener?

Maureen Blandford: I think I was in my last role. So this is new. So I launched B2B Unleashed a little over a year ago.

David McGuire: Cool, okay. So if it’s a new idea to the listener, what is B2B Unleashed? I’ve got to ask that before we start.

Maureen Blandford: Well, and I appreciate it. So it kicked off as a management consultancy focused on helping B2B organisations get off legacy mountain. So we’re all drowning in legacy, legacy tech, legacy processes, legacy mindsets. So focusing really on the gaps between product marketing, sales and success. Both the siloed humans and the siloed tech stacks, and soon to be unleashing some tech to support that hopefully later this year. So a lot of wins for functional area leaders within B2B to be slaying, if they just talk more to their compadres and other functional areas.

David McGuire:That sounds much needed. I can’t wait to see the tech as well. Maureen, before we answer this month’s question, would you mind telling the listener how they can get in touch with the show?

Maureen Blandford: Absolutely, you know I can. So listener if you have any comments or suggestions you can find Radix on LinkedIn, or Twitter @radixcom. Or if you want us to answer your question on a future episode, record a quick voice note and send it by email [email protected].

David McGuire: Perfectamundo! Thank you.

Matt Binny: I’m Matt Binny, freelance writer from Falmouth in Cornwall. My copywriting tips are as follows. When I’ve finished writing, I like to let it rest for a while; I go make lunch, a cup of tea, probably then another cup of tea. Then return with fresh eyes and improve. I always read copy out loud, very common tip for a reason as it’s very, very effective.

I also like to reread copy if I was someone with sort of no knowledge on the topic, or the product or service, and ask myself a few questions: “Does it tell me what I need to know?”, “Would I buy?” And also “Am I bored out of my mind?” is always a good one too.

Maureen Blandford: Thanks, Matt. Some things are classic for a reason and tips like that are popular because they really work. Now, who’s asking the question this month?

Announcer: Richard Hatheway, Senior Marketing Manager at Hewlett Packard Enterprise, asks: “I have influencers, decision makers and end users that I have to engage. So how do I determine what type of content to use for those different target audiences?”

David McGuire: Thanks, Richard. That’s something we content writers get asked a lot. So it’s great to have an opportunity to answer it on the show. B2B tech in particular has lots of potential audiences and big squiggly buyer journeys. So I caught up with Atlassian’s Head of Product Marketing for JIRA Software and Agile Solutions, Claire Drumond. And I started by asking her Richard’s question: just how do you figure out which content works, for which audience?

Claire Drumond: The best way to identify what content works for specific audiences is to ask your audience. And I think that we often forget in the digital world when we’re creating content that we actually can talk to customers and see what they think. So that’s one perspective on it.

Another way that I know that it’s working for a specific audience is, if there’s an action that we’re asking that audience to take, we can measure if they’re actually taking that action – whether it be to sign up for something, or if it’s just to read the next article, or if it’s just to scroll through the article. We create a lot of long-form content and I know that it resonates based off of some of those metrics.

And I also have the luxury of seeing content that I create resonate with a specific audience when it gets tweeted, and I get @ mentioned on Twitter or on LinkedIn. And if I’m lucky, it’ll spur a pretty awesome conversation in social media. So I hope that answers the question. It’s mostly just about tracking and seeing if there’s a specific action that you wanted the user to take, and if they’re taking it, then you know that it’s resonating. And if they’re not, then you need to tweak the content.

David McGuire: That’s interesting, because your metrics that you track are outcome-based then. They’re to do with the next thing, the next action, rather than just traffic or something like that.

Claire Drumond: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I think traffic is not indicative of the success of the content itself. It just shows if you’ve been successful at distributing that content and getting people to it. So I think that traffic is an interesting indicator for if your content is going to rank in Google, or if it’s going to reach a wider audience. But I don’t think that it’s a great indicator of if the content itself resonates.

David McGuire: Sure. You were saying about asking your customers. What does that look like? I mean, do you literally call them up? Do you have a poll? How does that work?

Claire Drumond: So we have a really robust community and sometimes we will just poll the community and ask for feedback on the content before we actually publish it. And people love to give their feedback, they love to have been mentioned, and they love that we ask. And so it’s a nice two-way conversation.

And it’s a nice way for us to connect with our customers. And just make sure that whatever it is that we’re publishing, not only resonates with them, but it’s helpful, because we like to create a lot of content that actually helps people do their jobs.

David McGuire: Do you have a sense then of when you look at different audience groups, different people in the decision making unit – or maybe you’ve got decision makers over here and you’ve got budget holders over there, and you’ve got users somewhere else – do you see that different kinds of content resonate for different kinds of audience?

Claire Drumond: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So an example of that is we create a lot of content around Agile best practices, for example. And I know that this content isn’t for our primary buyers, because the buyers that are purchasing our products are looking for more specific details about the actual tech specifications, or the product or features. They’re not really looking for best practices.

However, the people that are the end users of our products need the best practices, because that will help them be successful with our products. So we know from talking to customers, that best practices are a really useful way for the end users to understand how to do Agile and how JIRA can help them. But you wouldn’t get a lot of tries, “try” clicks, from that content because those aren’t the buyers. They’re enabling it.

So I think we have to target different areas of the funnel with different types of content and that brings you closer to trying the product and being successful in the product. But it’s far beyond just a landing page that gets you to try the product as soon as possible. So we like to create content for basically every stage of the funnel, and there is a different person that will find that content useful at every stage in the funnel.

Something that I think is unique with Atlassian is that we think that buying our products and using our products is a team sport and so we make sure that we’re targeting the whole team and not just the buyer.

David McGuire: I think that’s really good advice for anyone. There’s so many complex – sales and kind of distributed decision making units going on in B2B, especially in tech. So when you’re thinking about different stages of the funnel, is that always different roles at different stages of the funnel? Or is it sometimes one person moving through a buying journey? Or is there a mix of those things?

Claire Drumond: I think it’s a mix. It can definitely be one person, especially in smaller teams, where they become aware of us because of maybe an ad or because we published Agile best practices, and they were looking to do some new Agile rituals within their team. And they come to us, and then they end up touching all of the content through every stage of the journey until they finally try the product. But I find it more common that it’s multiple people who are touching the content in the funnel.

David McGuire: So you’ve got all of these people, you’ve got all of these buying journeys, all of these funnel stages. How do you make sure you have every angle covered? I mean, is it even possible to do that?

Claire Drumond: I think it’s possible. And we rely really heavily on SEO research to see where there are gaps. So if you pull branded keywords, or associated keywords, non branded keywords that are associated with our product, like say “scrum boards” or something like that – that is related to the product, but not directly. And we realise that we aren’t ranking for those keywords, then I think there’s an opportunity there.

So we know that we should have content in this category, we know that there’s a decent amount of search volume for it. And we are being outranked by maybe a competitor, or maybe by scrum.org, or something like that. So it’s possible if you’re looking at your SEO research on a regular basis to see where the gaps are, and to continue to create content to fill those gaps.

And sometimes it’s your own content that’s ranking that you didn’t intend to rank for those keywords, and you wanted something else to be there, you want your customers to reach something that isn’t accessible. Then you have to basically try and figure out how to compete against yourself and rank over what is there – which we do a lot. We do a lot of that.

David McGuire: Yeah, that sounds like an interesting challenge. So if the marketer that’s listening to this has maybe limited resources for content or don’t have the luxury of producing the big mountains of content that you can produce at Atlassian, where should they focus? Would you say – is there one part of the audience or one funnel stage or something else? Where should they start?

Claire Drumond: I think that if you are just starting out, and you don’t have a lot of resources, I think you need to look at two areas of the funnel. One is, what are you creating content around to be a thought leader in that will help customers understand the concepts that are related to either your product or whatever it is that you’re trying to create a funnel for.

What is that category? What does it look like, from a competitive perspective? What does it look like, from your own perspective? What are you blogging about? And are you ranking for those related keywords? If you’re not, who is? And I think if you look at that competitive landscape for that theme or subject, you can pretty quickly understand where you need to start developing content, thought leadership content.

And I’m talking about evergreen content that’s going to stick around for a long time, not blog posts that are about what’s the latest thing in the news and are going to be irrelevant in a week. I don’t think that’s worth anybody’s time if you’re just starting out and you have limited resources.

So I would say look at that evergreen landscape and start there. And then of course, you also need to make sure that your branded keywords are also SEO optimised and that you have links to those pages so that you can continue to create some domain authority around your branded stuff because that’s the most critical. So I think, top of funnel thought leadership content and very bottom of funnel branded keywords. Those are the two places that I would focus your attention.

David McGuire: That’s great. That’s so helpful. Thank you. Is there anything else on this topic that you wanted to say to the listener that we haven’t already covered?

Claire Drumond: Sure, I think the only other piece of advice that I would give from a content strategy perspective is, if you only have 10 chips, and you need to figure out where’s the best bet, make sure that it’s what is the most useful for your customers, and not the most useful for you.

Because if you create content that is useful for your customers, you will always reap the benefits of that, versus what you think you want to write about. I guess just put your customers first, put yourself in their shoes, and I think your content strategy will follow.

David McGuire: Amazing. Amen to that. Thank you. Claire, if the listener wants to hear more from you, or from a content team at Atlassian, and get more kind of wisdom from you, is there somewhere they can kind of find you online?

Claire Drumond: Sure. You can follow me on LinkedIn at Claire Drumond or on Twitter, @clairedrumond. And I definitely post stuff on LinkedIn and on Twitter, sometimes. You can definitely keep up with us there. And I do podcasts and stuff like this pretty regularly, too. So if you follow me on Twitter, you’ll be able to see what I’m up to.

David McGuire: Oh, thanks again, Claire. That is a really helpful response to Richard’s question. Maureen, there is a lot to dig into there. Did Claire say something that resonated with you?

Maureen Blandford: Yeah, you know, that was really great. A couple of things for me in particular that I love her shining the spotlight on is – the first one is that remembering that we can actually talk to customers and see what they think.

I actually love when we see copy directly from customers, whether it’s quotes, or whether it’s you were just lifting their language and using it because I think the most attractive copy is the stuff that’s going to resonate the most with customers. And that’s a great way to get it is by actually talking to them.

And the other thing I think it can’t be said enough is outcomes. So when thinking about all the different folks you’re trying to connect with, keeping in mind their outcomes, rather than your stuff. I thought that was brilliant for her to cover.

David McGuire: Yeah, absolutely. So you can kind of measure the outcomes that you’re looking for. But also think about being helpful and the end game that your customer has in mind.

So I think part of the thing in B2B and part of the thing I wanted to talk to you about in particular is quite how complex the decision making unit can look like in a B2B organisation. I know this is something you have experience of. So are there particular audiences that you feel are more important than others – if you’re trying to move someone through your funnel?

Maureen Blandford: Yeah, one of the areas I think we miss as B2B marketers, and we partly miss it because it’s hard and we partly miss it because we’re drowning. And that is B2B influencers. So not Kim Kardashian style, not who we’re mostly seeing on TikTok, although those people are all great, too.

But when you think about growing your reach, and your influence, B2B influencers are huge for that because they have a trusted network of their own, that if they buy into what you’re promoting, or what you’re advancing, they will, often unpaid – I don’t think I’ve ever paid an influencer – they will scale that message. So you’re really able to grow your unpaid reach.

So, for instance, one of the strongest B2B influencer communities that I’ve seen on Twitter is kind of the CIO or the transformation influencer community. And boy, those folks are generous. And if you can be a valuable part of their conversation, you’re included and you’re scaled and they are then more likely to look at articles you’ve written or be willing to publish or cite your folks as trusted sources. So it’s complicated to get there. But once you do, if you put the work in, how they grow your unpaid reach is just, it’s phenomenal. And I think it’s an underused channel in B2B today.

David McGuire: That sounds amazing. So, where would the listener begin to find those people and begin to build those relationships?

Maureen Blandford: So for me, Twitter for B2B influencers is the best. I kind of think of Twitter as where the influencers live and LinkedIn is where kind of the real people live. So it’s not work I do on LinkedIn, I’m sort of active. But on Twitter, just start by listening to the conversations, and start to jump in as who you are, as opposed to your brand, although I suppose you could. I’ve always started kind of with the humans, and that’s what I recommend. And sometimes people will engage with you, and sometimes they won’t. And that’s not the point. The point is just to start planting seeds, and hearing what they’re talking about. Because then speaking of outcomes, you can then approach them based on the outcomes that you know they care about, because you’ve been listening and watching the space. So I would start on Twitter, and I would start by listening.

David McGuire: That sounds great. And obviously, you know, the buyer journey in B2B. I mean, it can take months and more sometimes. How do you keep your audience’s attention? How’s their attention span over something that long while they’re going through that process? If you have kind of only limited resources for content, how can you possibly cover that?

Maureen Blandford: Well, it is for me, the resource is time as opposed to money. And that can be hard when you’re juggling the 50 million things that marketers are expected to juggle on the regular.

So for me, the thing you have to think about influencer relations – it’s kind of like learning a new language – is if you invest the time to understand it at the beginning, the payoff is just exponential in the end. Once you know how to engage with influencers, you just do it as you breathe, it takes very little time during the day. But it does take time to get immersed in the short term. And I’m not sure how to quantify that really, except to say it takes time.

David McGuire: Time – the thing that we all have so much of. Thank you, that is really insightful, kind of adds another layer to the conversation. And insightful as ever, I’d have expected nothing less. So, thank you so much. Before we wrap up, though, there is time for some more inclusive writing advice from Ettie Bailey King.

Ettie Bailey-King: Use affirmative language. So affirmative terms are words and phrases that are very clear, specific and positive. It’s words and phrases like saying “disabled person,” “has paraplegia,” “has schizophrenia,” “deaf person,” “autistic person”. This affirmative language is distinct from the kinds of negative and shaming language that you might have heard, potentially in the recent past, or when you were younger.

So negative and shaming terms might be a phrase like “retarded,” or using euphemistic language about someone’s disability and saying that they are “confined to a wheelchair,” for example. Well, it’s not true and it’s not accurate. Wheelchairs typically liberate people. So use affirmative language to make sure that you’re being accurate, and celebratory about difference.

Maureen Blandford: Thanks so much, Ettie. That’s definitely something we all need to keep in mind and, listener, you can hear more inclusive writing advice from Ettie next time. Thanks, also to Claire Drumond and to Matt Binny for sharing your advice in this episode. And thanks to Richard Hatheway for the question. We hope you found the answer useful.

David McGuire: And thank you, Maureen for being such a brilliant guest co-host, as ever. I hope it hasn’t been too painful an experience this time.

Maureen Blandford: It’s always a pleasure, David. Always a pleasure. Thank you.

David McGuire: Oh, bless you – cheque’s in the post. Remember listener, it could be your question we answer in a future episode. If you have a question for B2BQ&A to answer email a voice memo to [email protected]. Or find us on social media.

I’ll see you next time for another B2BQ&A. Until then make good content, and remember Sun Tzu said: “If you know your audience, and you know yourself, you need not fear the result of 100 blog posts”. But then again, he also said: “Don’t believe every quote you read on the internet”.

David and Maureen: Goodbye!

 

 

 

 

 

 

B2BQ&A 109: What’s the worst thing about briefing a B2B copywriter?

Posted on by The Radix Team

In an ideal world, a B2B copywriter can read your mind and conjure up the most perfect piece of content you could ever dream of. But here in the real world, there’s briefing to be done.

And in this episode we answer a question from freelance B2B writer (not to mention Radix founder, and original host of this here podcast) Fiona Campbell-Howes, about what happens when briefings go wrong:

“We hear lots on social media about what writers find frustrating about their clients. But I’d be really intrigued to hear things from the client side: what do marketers find frustrating about writers that they work with? And what can we do to make things better for them?”

We put Fiona’s question to Sally Adam, Marketing Director at the cybersecurity company Sophos. And, as you’ll hear, she gave us a brilliant and unflinchingly honest answer. Plus, four anonymous B2B marketers each get their own personal copywriter gripes off their assorted chests.

Also in this episode, Ettie Bailey-King joins us for the final instalment of her inclusive writing advice, and Vikki Ross shares a classic pro tip from copywriting legend David Abbott. And to help us navigate it all, we get fabulous insights and lots of laughs from our guest co-host Harendra “Harry” Kapur (whom you can also find on Twitter here).

You can read a full transcript of this episode at the bottom of this page.

How can copywriters make life better for B2B marketers?

Let’s be clear: Sally considers copywriters to be “hugely, hugely valuable”. But that doesn’t mean we can rest on our laurels. Writers can often give marketers a frustrating time – and usually, it’s when we forget the basics:

Actually listen to the customer

Copywriters are full of knowledge, enthusiasm, and good ideas – and usually that’s a good thing. But if it means you start to make assumptions about the brief, or you’re too keen to show off what you know, that can cause issues.

“The copywriter goes off and puts a load of effort in,” says Sally. “And you’re excitedly waiting for the piece because you’ve got a deadline. But when it comes back, they’re not matching up.”

Check our creative ideas

Often, a copywriter has creative ideas that go beyond the brief. And that can be great. But if you try to spring surprises on the marketer, that can be as bad as not listening in the first place. Instead, a quick call or email can confirm you’re on the right track.

“Do check in,” Sally explains. “Sometimes the answer is ‘No, that’s not relevant here,’ and sometimes it’s ‘Wow, brilliant connection; I hadn’t thought of that myself.’ But as someone who’s doing the briefing, you’d much rather have someone ask that question than go to all the effort of creating a piece that misses the mark.”

Brush up our soft skills

If the brief involves interviewing a customer or senior leader, the writer’s behaviour reflects strongly on the marketer. And impressions really matter.

“I’m putting you in the hands of a valued customer, whose business we really value,” Sally says. “You’re representing me. We can work on the actual copy that comes back, but the experience the interviewee has with the copywriter is not going to change. That can make or break relationships and have a wider business impact.”

We’ve packed a lot into this episode. Here’s where to find it all…

0:59 – Meet the hosts: David McGuire and Harendra Kapur
2:44 – Vikki Ross shares her favourite copywriting tip
3:39 – Radix founder Fiona Campbell-Howes asks this month’s question…
4:39 – …And Sally Adam answers it
15:09 – Harry and David discuss [checks notes] …the Kama Sutra?
21:08 – Four anonymous marketers share their pet copywriting hates
29:58 – Ettie Bailey-King talks person-first and identity-first language

All it takes is a little voice memo

To have your burning B2B question naswered, just send us a voice memo at [email protected]. And if there are any other thoughts you’d like to share, you can find us on Twitter @radixcom.

How to listen: 

Credits

  • Thanks, Fiona Campbell-Howes, for the question (and, you know, everything).
  • And thanks to Sally Adam, for answering it in such an honest and insightful way.
  • Thanks too to our four anonymous marketers. Chickens.
  • We’re grateful to Vikki Ross for the pro tip, and especially Ettie Bailey-King for all your inclusive writing advice over the last six months.
  • Cheers, Harry Kapur, for being an excellent co-host. Come back anytime.
  • And thank you, for listening.

Podcast editing and music by Bang and Smash.

Transcript: B2BQ&A 109: What’s the worst thing about briefing a B2B copywriter?

Fiona Campbell-Howes: What do marketers find frustrating about writers that they work with, and what can we do to make things better for them?

Harendra “Harry” Kapur: Oh, can’t wait to get into this one. Let’s ask Sally Adam from Sophos.

David McGuire: Hello listener; you are excessively welcome to B2BQ&A, the podcast where we go in search for an answer to your question about B2B content writing. This is episode 109.

Harry: In a few moments, we’re going to hear from Sally Adam, content and marketing leader at Sophos, as well as a few other B2B marketers. And they’re going to be telling us about the most annoying thing about briefing a copywriter, and what we can do about it. We’re also going to hear a copywriting pro tip from Vikki Ross, so good for you. And we will get some inclusive writing advice from Ettie Bailey-King.

David: Before all of that though, who the hell are we? Well, I’m David McGuire, Creative Director at Radix Communications, the B2B tech writing agency. And our guest co-host for this episode is a B2B tech writer, consultant, speaker, all round agent of chaos, Harendra Kapur. Harry, welcome.

Harry: Hey man, thanks for having me on.

David: Hey, how you doing? For the listeners who don’t know, you were Head of Copy at Velocity, and doing your own thing now, right?

Harry: Yeah, just freelancing my little butt round town. That’s kind of what I’ve been up to. And, yeah, it’s gone much better than I thought. Because it’s like, leaving a successful agency with this fancy title and stuff in the middle of a pandemic, maybe recession type of deal. When I did it, it just felt like…

David: Perfectly sensible.

Harry: Yeah, like this could go horribly wrong. And it hasn’t. And I’m very grateful for that. So yeah.

David: I’m glad to hear it’s going well. Couldn’t happen to a nicer chap. But before we get on with this serious business of answering the question for the episode, would you mind doing your first duty as co-host and telling the listener how they can get in touch with us?

Harry: Yeah sure. So listener, if you have comments or suggestions you can find Radix on LinkedIn or Twitter @Radixcom. But if you want us to answer your question on a future episode, then record a quick little voice note and send it by email: [email protected].

David: That’s perfect, thank you very much.

Vikki: Hello, my name is Vikki Ross, and I’m a copywriter. One of my favourite copywriting tips is something David Abbott once said. He was one of the best copywriters in the world, so he knew what he was talking about. He said, “sometimes the best copy is no copy”. I say, that’s absolutely true, that sometimes you need a copywriter to say so. I hope that helps you when you’re writing, or when you’re telling someone why you don’t need to write anything.

Harry: Love that from Vikki. So much of the best stuff a copywriter does on any kind of project is wordless and invisible and choosing not to do something. And so it’s really good of her to call that out because so much of this is about restraint even. But anyway, let’s get to the Q&A part of B2BQ&A. We’ll start with a very familiar voice.

Fiona: Hi, Radix. It’s Fiona Campbell-Howes here, freelance B2B tech content writer. So, we hear lots on social media about what writers find frustrating about their clients. But I’d be really intrigued to hear things from the client side. What do marketers find frustrating about writers that they work with? And what can we do to make things better for them?

David: Hello, Fiona, how lovely to have your voice back on the show. Listener, in case you’re new around these parts, Fiona actually founded Radix and used to co-host this very podcast. And as you’d expect from Fiona, this is such a good question. The only issue is who’d be bold enough to talk to a copywriter about the most annoying things that copywriters do? Well, actually more people than you might think.

To start with, I spoke with Sally Adam, who’s content and product marketing leader at the cybersecurity company Sophos, and I asked her Fiona’s question, what do you find the most frustrating thing when you’re briefing a copywriter?

Sally: I think the most annoying thing is when the copywriter doesn’t listen to what you are looking to achieve with the piece. Usually, you’ve got a lot of goals, or the things you want to do with it. And sometimes you can see the copywriter isn’t really listening and when the piece comes back, you can see it’s a case of, “okay, I had this thing that I knew on this topic that I wanted to write about. And I’ve just written what I wanted to say on this topic rather than what we needed to achieve with this particular piece of work”.

David: Why do you think it is a copywriter would do that? Are they just trying to kind of add value, ironically? Or are they trying to kind of show off how much they know? Or do they think they know better than you?

Sally: I think it’s probably a bit of all of those. Often when you’ve been writing on a topic for a while you build up your own knowledge, your own experience of the topic, and suddenly your mind runs away. And you’re thinking, “okay, actually, I’ve got some experience here. I’ve already done this, I feel comfortable writing about this particular element because I’ve done it before”.

And so there’s a bit of a case of, “okay, this is an area where I’ve got some expertise that I can bring in, or I enjoy writing about that”. But also, I do think there’s a piece of, “okay, this could be helpful, or I can use my knowledge here to extend the piece”. And sometimes that’s great.

What is wonderful with a copywriter is when they’re joining together the different briefs you’ve done over a period of time, and they’re linking up and thinking, “okay, well, we actually did this piece. And that ties in with something she’s mentioned, let me ask her if it’s worth us joining these together, or should I reference them”.

And I love that, when people are piecing the puzzle together and helping extend the story and connect elements. The challenge is when there isn’t the check. And the copywriter goes off and puts a load of effort in and you’re excitedly waiting for the piece because you’ve got a deadline. And when it comes back, they’re not matching up.

David: So the thing there that the copywriters should be doing, but they’re not doing is to check with you. Is that really what you’d like you’d like to happen in that situation?

Sally: Absolutely, yeah. So, play back the brief. And I try and do that myself when I’m getting tasks at work is, play back and make sure I’ve understood correctly what we’re being asked for.

But, and also, as you have other ideas, if you have thoughts of connections, or ways it could go, do check in. As someone who’s doing the briefing, you’d much rather have someone ask that question and say, “is this something we can join in together?” Then them go to all the effort and the time of creating a piece that then is missing the mark.

David: And sometimes I guess people don’t feel like they’re allowed, because they know that you’re busy or whatever. But I suppose in the long run, that will save you time.

Sally: Yeah, absolutely. And I think for us who are briefing, we need to make sure that we give the copywriter the time, we give them those opportunities to ask the questions, because otherwise, we’re putting them in an impossible situation.

So yeah, very much there’s a responsibility on the briefer to support and enable and to allow the person – and to help them also feel good about asking the questions. Sometimes the answer is “no, that’s not relevant here”. And sometimes it’s “wow, brilliant connection. I hadn’t thought of that myself.”

But as with all things, it’s fine to ask the question, and we need to make sure that the copywriter feels comfortable, and isn’t going to be made to feel stupid or anything for asking that question.

David: So do you then find things tend to go better where it’s a written brief, or if it’s a briefing call, or a combination of the two? How do you prefer to work and which gives the most opportunity for that clarification?

Sally: I think both are good. And quite often, it’s good to do both together. So maybe start with a written brief so the copywriter gets a chance to think with a little bit of calm and to maybe formulate some questions that they want to ask, and some initial ideas. And also then give something for everybody to go back to when you’re just wanting to refresh yourself when you’ve been doing a different job, and writing about a different topic.

But having the opportunity to speak and explore in person, and I think explain perhaps in a bit more detail than you would do in an email is also really helpful. But also you have to ask the copywriter what would they prefer because I suspect different copywriters prefer different approaches. Some may prefer to just start with the conversation, some may want to have a really detailed written brief.

David: Can I ask about the amends process, when a piece may be hasn’t hit the mark? Is that something where when you go back with that feedback, do copywriters kind of get defensive at all, or is it kind of alright for them to sort of push back if you or stakeholders have suggested changes?

Sally: I think it’s probably true for copywriting as much as any other job. If somebody is giving you quality feedback that they’ve properly taken the time to consider and to convey back then it is a gift to take.

Now, there’s sometimes feedback that is just a personal opinion. And I think we need to make clear when we’re giving feedback if something is a personal opinion, or if it’s just experience, or if it’s a factual thing. And then maybe sometimes as a copywriter, you’ve got expertise.

Certainly, I’m sure every copywriter’s grammar is better than mine. And so do push back, if it’s an area where you feel you are the expert. But generally, if it’s good and quality, considered feedback, then hopefully it’s something that can help with the final piece.

And probably the longer that you work with an organization, the better you’ll get to know them. You’ll be able to get to know their style, and the type of topics that they cover, and the approach they’re looking for. So in my experience, the longer we work together, the fewer the amends as we go on.

David: Do you find yourself sometimes sort of stuck in the middle between a copywriter and a stakeholder, or stuck between a copywriter and a subject matter expert who are sort of at loggerheads. Sometimes I kind of feel for the marketer being stuck in the middle there. What’s that like?

Sally: That’s where you have to say, “okay, my job, my expertise is to be the person in the middle and to be the person who is representing the audience we want to reach”. And that’s the hat I need to wear, “what is going to resonate with the audience?” And that’s where I can add value between the subject matter expert and the copywriter is going “okay, great. You’ve both got really informed and interesting positions here. But let me play the role of the audience”. And that’s my part in the process, that’s the value that I bring.

David: How can a copywriter best help you at that stage of the process?

Sally: Perhaps through explaining why they’ve done something in a particular way. If there’s a stakeholder and in our case, quite often a very technical stakeholder, who is saying something, it can be really valuable to have the outsider in terms of the copywriter, share their opinion:

“I don’t know that term, that is not something that is commonly understood, that is really valuable feedback,” or “the reason I structured this particular part in this way is because of ABC”. So yeah, explaining their reasoning because there’s a lot of skill and thought and expertise that goes behind those words. And that also helps communicate and convert to the subject matter expert.

David: So, comments in the margins, that kind of thing that will kind of help you and kind of inform that conversation. Is there anything else that you finally wish that, while you have the ear of copywriters, is there anything else you wish they did differently?

Sally: So copywriters are hugely, hugely valuable. They create wonderful pieces, they turn thoughts and ramblings into coherent stories that really help get across what we’re about. So great copywriters are fabulous.

I think the final thing I’d sort of say is that when we’re briefing a copywriter, particularly for an interview situation, where it’s going to be interviewing, perhaps colleagues, perhaps its customers, perhaps it’s other people in the wider industry, you’re representing me. I’m putting you in front of senior leaders in my organisation, I’m putting you in the hands of my customer, whose business we really value and whose business we really wish to maintain. You are the representation of me.

And I know that is widely understood. But I think it’s probably worth emphasising because I think that’s probably the nervousness from my side, more than anything else. The actual copy that comes back, we can work on that. But the experience that the interviewee has with the copywriter, that’s not going to change. That’s the impression that they’re going to walk away with. And that is, therefore, probably the thing that is most important, because that’s going to make or break other relationships and perhaps will have a wider business impact.

So I’d say just bear in mind you’re representing the person who briefs you, you’re representing their organisation as well. So we’re placing a huge amount of trust in you. And it’s almost always repaid 100-fold, but you are being entrusted with our perspectives and our representation.

David: Thanks, Sally. That is a really helpful and balanced response. And there’s loads of practical input for all the copywriters listening. Harry, I know you’ve got to have some views on this. So what stood out for you there?

Harry: Well, I mean, having managed writers in my life, I know how annoying we can be. But I think Sally’s definitely clocked the most annoying thing about briefing copywriters. And it’s really, when you just don’t listen. I’ve been this guy more times than I’d care to admit.

And I think generally speaking, when a copywriter’s going into a briefing, it’s a moment of high excitement for them on multiple different levels. You might be really nervous about, “I don’t want to say something stupid in front of the smart person”. Or you might be like, “I’m really excited to talk about this brief, because I’ve got some ideas that I want to pitch the client that would fit this brief, and I can’t wait to tell him or whatever”.

And actually, I think, really, the important thing, and you just learn this over the years from doing it time after time, is just put all that stuff aside, and just go into the room, and listen, and just sit there and be a dummy. The other ones in the room is by definition smarter than you. That’s why they’re briefing you, because they know more than you do. And so just like let it in, hear it the way they’re saying it, don’t hear it the way you wish it was.

These are all obviously really hard things to do. And you get better at doing them over time. But I think, really, the big thing is just, enjoy being the dummy. Just chill. Just ask your stupid clarifying question or, test, “I thought this would be a good thing that we could do.” Just say the things that you need to say, because I think, if you spend 20 minutes really doing someone that courtesy of listening to them, they’ll listen back. They’ll be happy to talk to you about the thing. It’s a lot easier that way. But it can be hard and definitely the most annoying thing I think that copywriters can do.

David: Yeah, I mean, I think Katherine Wildman, I think in a previous episode was kind of – shared a tip about intelligent naivety. Which I think is great – actually pretending you’re dumber than you are. Just to be that blank canvas, to represent the audience.

Harry: Yeah, exactly.

David: Which is a really tricky thing to do, particularly in an area like ours, where you’re aware that they’ve hired a specialist B2B writer or a specialist B2B tech writer for a reason. Because they don’t want to have to go right back to zero and so you kind of want to show that you know the area and that there’s a real balance there because you don’t want to cross pollute with too many of your own ideas.

Harry: Exactly.

David: There’s that idea from the – is it from the Kama Sutra? – of the beginner’s mind. I think it applies here. The stuff from your old partners should not colour the stuff with your new partners. I think it’s the same with clients a little bit.

Harry: You’ve got to do a thread on what B2B marketers can learn from the Kama Sutra. Make that happen!

David: You haven’t heard my ebook about that? That’s a whole different podcast series.

Harry: I think really the challenging thing, I think that – in an ideal world, the client and the copywriter, and really any other creative representative involved in the briefing, you’re all trying to shape something together, that fits obviously the client’s vision of reality, and what will pan out and all that stuff, but then also all your own little weird, artistic, “this is a good way to say that”, or whatever your thing might be.

And you’re trying to get to that place where you’re shaping it together. And I think ground zero and that is that when the other person’s briefing you, you hear what they’re saying, even if it isn’t in the words they’re saying. You’re really trying to understand the intent behind the briefing as well.

And so listening, it’s not just sitting there thinking nothing. It’s really paying close attention to what they mean, and what they’re prioritising and all this invisible in-between-the-line stuff, all the good stuff.

David: And being that – Sally was saying that she’s the avatar kind of for the audience, for the reader. That’s really important. All the time, sitting in their seat. It’s so important.

Harry: Correct. Yeah. And there’s obviously at the end of the spectrum, there’s another kind of like, weird little issue that comes up. Which is you can know a client so well, that you have an amazing shorthand with them. And you have these awesome fluid four minute briefing sessions where they just go, “ebook, top of funnel, difficult,” and you go, “I know what you mean”.

And you go ahead and make this thing, and it’s that thing of the avatar for the customer or the prospect, I think is – so much of that is that they don’t have any other context. They don’t know what you’re talking about. They have no – they don’t know where this company is coming from, where the stuff that they’re preaching is coming from, where the best practice advice is coming from, any of that stuff. And so you do have to – you need to be able to both go down to zero and think about it like a smart prospect would be thinking about it, and how they would be approaching it.

David: Absolutely. Sally’s not actually the only person to have answered this question for us. I think we alluded to this earlier. I got a whole bunch of – Sally was the only one that was brave enough to put a name on it – but I did get a whole bunch of anonymous responses as well.

It seems there’s actually quite a lot that annoys marketers about copywriters. So we picked the best few. We’ll play those in and you can tell me what you think just off the top of your head. Okay?

Harry: Cool.

Anonymous marketer #1: I wish B2B copywriters understood that people in B2B are still people. They may not be in their primary role as a consumer when they are reading the copy you’ve written, but we can talk to them as if they are. They’re still humans. They don’t need dozens of fluffy buzzwords to understand a concept or engage with your content. Without dumbing it down or doing your content a disservice, write as a human to another human in a conversational and human way.

Harry: That’s hard to argue with. I mean, I do feel sure that we can be more annoying than that. We can be worse than that. There’s worse things copywriters do.

David: You don’t think that’s the worst thing?

Harry: No, no.

David: Okay, this is the top four.

Harry: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we need a good top three. We need to burn this into people’s back’s or something.

David: The thing that’s interesting about this is a – it’s like a B2B tech writer that’s gone native, right? I think every B2B tech writer comes into it, trying to weed out the buzzwords and trying to get away from that stuff. And probably at the end, just the whole career of having to get things signed off. In the end, they just assume that they have to write that way. I think there’s a switch that gets flicked.

Harry: No, definitely, definitely. It’s kind of like an ocean, right? It’s like the national gravity in the space is that – and this is the uncomfortable thing. If you want to efficiently work with many different clients in B2B, actually, the consequence of that might be that there’s a whole lot of buzzword nonsense in your thing, because you just split writing. Your audience is the marketing department paying your bills, and that’s kind of the extent of it. But no, writing for humans, definitely good. I’d love to see a B2B company try to talk to people as if they were cats. I don’t know. I don’t know. Maybe – imagine if that works. Imagine if that’s amazing!

David: B2B catnip. You heard it here first. Okay, the next one.

Anonymous marketer #2: My pet hate is briefing an agency that then subs out copywriting to someone who wasn’t in the room.

Harry: Oh, okay, okay, now we’re talking. Now we’re getting into some really good stuff. Because I’d like to say this first as like a very small point of defence on behalf of agencies. Because I’ve been in that situation, I’ve been in every version of that situation. I’ve been the guy outside the room, I’ve been the guy telling the guy inside the room to give it to the guy outside. I’ve been through all permutations of this.

And it can work. I’ve seen this work. There are times when there’s someone who’s outside the room, who you’ve never spoken to, and you didn’t expect them to work on it, and then they do something and it blows your mind. That can happen. And I think actually a lot of the magic you’re paying for with an agency is that possibility that that could happen.

Now that said, this is the worst thing. I hate this one. It’s so irritating, it’s so frustrating to – especially I think when clients really do the agency the kind of courtesy of bringing their best self to the briefing. They’re prepared, they’ve thought about the session, “I’ll explain this, then I’ll explain this and he’ll get it,” you know, whatever. They’ve really thought about doing the briefing well, and then they do the briefing, and then it’s some random who didn’t even clock all the important stuff they we’re talking about in the brief. That’s the worst, it’s so annoying. So really hard.

David: I love it. The worst thing about briefing a copywriter is when the copywriter is not there.

Harry: Yeah! What’s the point of that?

Anonymous marketer #3: When the individual hasn’t understood the client’s tone or style of writing and so returns with the monotone or “off-voice” style. Take more time to review the client’s historic style and tone please.

Harry: Yeah, that’s just basics man. That’s the – it’s basics and you’d hope that every copywriter’s doing this kind of a thing, but I think it’s really good to hear this from the horse’s mouth, from the mouth of someone who’s annoyed and irritated by it.

Because I think, especially with younger writers, I think there’s a part of us that believes that this client doesn’t know what they want. “Once I make this thing, they’ll understand how good it is like, they’ll see it in the finished product, I’ll blow their mind and it’ll be amazing”.

And I think that’s an important part of you to keep, you should always be trying to do that for the client. But really the first audience you need to know, we talked about knowing your audience and stuff, the first audience you have to know is the dude or lady who at 6:17pm on a Friday is saying to her office friends, “no, you guys go to the pub, I’ll catch up with you later,” or whatever. “I’m going to open this document that the stranger has sent me. And I’m just really desperately hoping that what’s in this document isn’t professionally embarrassing to me. It just a little looks like it’s coming from someone who doesn’t know what the hell they’re talking about,” or whatever.

And that’s the first hurdle you have to clear as a copywriter. That’s the first person you’ve got to be empathetic to I think, definitely on the B2B side, but I think that’s true on the B2C side as well. Maybe a lot more deferential out there. It’s really annoying. You need to know how the person you’re working for wants to represent themselves and no idea you have is more important than that.

And that’s the first hurdle you have to clear as a copywriter. That’s the first person you’ve got to be empathetic to I think, definitely on the B2B side, but I think that’s true on the B2C side as well. Maybe a lot more deferential out there. It’s really annoying. You need to know how the person you’re working for wants to represent themselves and no idea you have is more important than that.

Anonymous marketer #4: I have experienced two recurring issues. One: not being able to speak the language of the target audience or decision makers. We had a Gen Z copywriter who was writing content directed at senior C suite executives, 50-60-year-old mostly male individuals. This doesn’t necessarily mean jargon but definitely some corporate terminology that CHR or CFOs would relate with: increase revenue, decrease costs in some way or the other.

We had to go through a few rounds and I had to describe our audience in detail for them to do a good job to the whole features instead of benefits angle. Quite a few times content and copy would be about what we provide rather than intelligently talking about the value add and when this was explained most copy was a direct “here are five benefits of ….”, which in my opinion doesn’t really work.

Harry: That sucks. If you keep coming across that’s awful, that’s really bad. I mean, I guess, obviously, all that tells me is that like the most annoying thing is bad copywriting. Nothing beats bad copywriting.

David: I think there’s an element of this and it’s maybe something we should talk about on the show that I know that Leif Kendall at Pro Copywriters has for a while been talking about the idea of “do we need some kind of accreditation for copywriters?” Because at the moment anyone can stick a shingle outside their door and say “I’m a copywriter.” And the more people who do that, who don’t really embrace the craft, the more it undermines the rest of us.

Harry: Yeah, I think so. I mean, it’s a weird one as well, because at least in the years I’ve been doing this… Over the years, you sort of tried to collect as many absolute truths about the craft as you can. And I’ve got an empty bag. I can never find anything that pervades all industries and all contacts and all situations, because B2B, we don’t hang out because we like talking to companies, we hang out because we don’t sell shampoo.

We’re united by what we don’t do. And that’s about the extent of it, like a service company and a SAS company. It’s fundamentally different business models, and the way they approach markets are going to become completely different, the way they talk to people is going to be different. And so it’s hard, but it is a little frustrating when someone has worked with seven bad copywriters in a row and then they go “ah, marketing doesn’t work” or whatever.

And it’s like, “no, you hired bad people.” And I don’t know how to convince them of that. I don’t know how to demonstrate that to someone. Maybe accreditations would be good. But yeah, maybe it’s good that Leif’s talking about this because I really couldn’t think of many people who would take on something like that, but maybe Leif’s the guy though.

David: Yep, absolutely. Leif, the ball’s in your court. You make it happen and we will support you.

Harry: Good luck dude!

David: Okay, it is almost time for us to wrap up. But first we do have our final inclusive writing tip from Ettie Bailey-King.

Ettie Bailey-King:  You’ve probably heard people talking about person-first language or identity-first language. So what does this mean?

Person-first language would put somebody’s name first. And they might say “Ettie has depression.” That’s person-first language because the person’s name, or perhaps the pronoun talking about them comes first. You might say “she has depression”. And person-first language is really popular with a wide range of identities, and often marginalised experiences.

In many cases, we want to be referred to using person-first language because it puts the person back in the frame. I’m not defined by my depression, I’m still a real person with a full and rich identity separate from that. But many people actually want identity-first language. So what does identity-first language look like?

Well, that might look like saying, “I’m autistic,” “I’m schizophrenic,” “she’s disabled”. And in some cases, that community of people really, really wants to use identity-first language. It’s really important that we find out what people’s preferences are.

So in the example of autism, many, many autistic people say that they really want their autism to be considered part and parcel of who they are. It is not a separate trivial detail of their identity. It’s absolutely integral. And that’s why many autistic people will really, really want that language to be used.

And if we don’t respect that wish, then were really undermining their right to express themselves and to be taken seriously given their identity. So what’s the lesson that we can draw from this? Well, unfortunately, there isn’t one simple tip as to whether you should always use person first or always use identity first. Brings us back to tip number one, which is that you must always ask.

If you’re looking for a rough rule of thumb, it’s typically the case that identity-first language is popular with people who have physical, motor and sensory disabilities. So for example, many deaf people want to say “I am deaf”, they won’t say “I am a person with deafness”. So you can keep in mind that frequently identity-first language is popular with certain physical motor and sensory disabilities. But you always need to check.

David: That’s actually the last in the series of these tips. Etiie, we are really grateful to you for sending them in. They’ve been so practical and thought provoking over these last few months. And listen, if you want more information on inclusive and anti-oppressive language, you can find Ettie at fightingtalk.uk or on Twitter @ettiebk.

Harry: And of course, we also want to thank Fiona Campbell-Howes for asking the question that kicked this whole thing off. We hope you feel like you were satisfied by the answers that we came across, that we did surface the annoying things about briefing copywriters. And so, of course, we would really like to thank Sally Adam from Sophos for such an honest, thought provoking, good, correct answer, I think, to a difficult question – we appreciate that. And obviously, thank you to everyone who anonymously sent in their comments. And, of course, the great Vikki Ross, for her pro tip.

David: Thank you, Vikki. And thank you, Harry, you have been a fabulous guest co-host once again. I hope you’ll come back again?

Harry: Oh, it’s been my pleasure. I would absolutely love to.

David: Awesome. We’ll look forward to that. In the meantime, if the listener wants to get in touch with you and find out more about the wonderful world of Harry Kapur, where can they do that?

Harry: You can reach me, the quickest way to reach me is probably on my Twitter, which is @rupees1hundred, probably easier to just search my name. But also if you want to work with me, then probably best to find me on LinkedIn.

David: Great, and we’ll put a link in the show notes as well. Remember listener, it could be your question we answer in a future episode. If you have a question for B2BQ&A to answer email, a voice memo to [email protected]. Or find us on social media. I’ll see you next time for another B2BQ&A. Until then make good content and remember, one day you will die but the content you publish will live forever. Thanks a bunch, Google.

Harry and David: Goodbye!

 

B2BQ&A 110: How can you find the right SEO keywords for niche B2B content?

Posted on by The Radix Team

Researching keywords is relatively easy in a popular B2C market – where data is plentiful and vocabulary is simple. But how do you find search intent in the rarefied world of B2B tech? That’s what Emily King from Bluefruit Software wants to know:

“It’s one thing to know what you call your product or service, but it’s another to know what your potential audience is actually using in their searches. So how do you find this out?”

Such an important question needs a very special guest… so we went straight to the top: Andy Crestodina from Orbit Media. Andy literally wrote the book on SEO and content marketing, and we’re thrilled to have him on the podcast.

And we don’t just have Andy’s sage advice for you. In this month’s episode, we’re joined by guest co-host Ruth Connor, Content Marketing Specialist at B2B Marketing and Propolis. You’ll also hear a copywriting pro tip from UX writer Fiorella Rizzà, and there’s news of an exciting challenge to mark the 10th anniversary of this podcast.

You’ll find a full transcript of this episode at the end of this post.

Want to find the right keywords for B2B tech? Here are Andy’s five tips:

1. Embrace the B2B niche

Writing for smaller companies that focus on niche B2B tech has opportunities in search that some of the bigger companies might miss.

Andy explains: “If you don’t have super-high domain authority, that’s a benefit because it pushes you towards key phrases that are less popular – but much more targeted. The niche is where the fun is: you can find phrases that a small number of people are searching for, but they’re thrilled when they find you. The click-through and conversion rates are high. It’s an enormous opportunity.

2. Prioritise the bottom of the funnel

Andy recommends targeting the key phrases that indicate strong commercial or transaction intent – the person who has their wallet out, but just needs a bit of help.

“Start by optimising your homepage,” he advises. “That’s the page for which you have the best chance of ranking. Next, optimise your service pages. Those pages have strong intent; the visitor is looking for help – they need a service or a product.”

3. Empathy is the ultimate search marketing skill

Andy suggests the ultimate source of keywords is your own audience.

“If you get asked the same question two or three times you should be answering that question in your content,” he says. “We listen out for the topics that our audience really, really cares about. We put plans in place to publish on those topics. And then, as we’re publishing, we look for keyword opportunities.”

4. Target key phrases for which the best answer is very long and detailed

The number of searches for which the click-through rate is zero keeps growing because Google’s Featured Snippets are so informative.

According to Andy: “We should all be looking for opportunities to write content that is keyword focused, but also where the answer to the question is deep and long with details.”

5. Don’t just rank high; be interesting

The days of fooling search engines with low-quality filler content are long gone. “You’re not doing SEO if you’re not sincerely trying to make one of the top 10 pages on the internet,” Andy proposes. “You have no right to rank if you made another medium-quality piece.”

“But also, as you do this, don’t forget to inject your own voice; say something that’s provocative or counterintuitive. Put people into your articles and include contributor quotes from people with interesting ideas.”

Further reading (and watching)…

Here’s what you can expect in this episode…

1:59 – Ruth Connor explains why the BBC is a role model for content atomisation

5:11 – David McGuire poses Emily King’s question to Andy Crestodina

13:54 – Ruth and David discuss personas and the importance of talking to customers

23:49 – UX writer Fiorelli Rizzà shares a copywriting pro tip

24:15 – David McGuire announces a new challenge to mark our 10th anniversary

Got a question? We’ll find the answer.

To get your burning B2B content questions answered, just send us a voice memo at [email protected]. And if there are any other thoughts you’d like to share, you can find us on LinkedIn, or Twitter @radixcom.

How to listen: 

Credits

  • Thank you, Andy Crestodina, for sharing so much SEO wisdom.
  • Cheers also to Fiorella Rizzà for this month’s copywriting pro tip.
  • And of course thanks to to Ruth Connor – our excellent guest co-host.

Podcast editing and music by Bang and Smash.

Transcript: B2BQ&A 110 – How can you find the right SEO keywords for niche B2B content?

Emily King: It’s one thing to know what you call your product or service, but it’s another to know what your potential audience is actually using in their searches. So how do you find this out?

Ruth Connor: That’s a brilliant question. Let’s ask Andy Crestodina from Orbit Media.

David McGuire: Hello listener, and welcome back to B2BQ&A, the podcast where we go in search of an answer to your question about B2B content writing. We’re back for a new season, and this is Episode 110.

Ruth: Wow, Episode 110. That feels pretty special.

David: 10 years.

Ruth: That’s incredible. That’s incredible. Well, in a few moments, we’re gonna hear from Andy Crestodina, the CMO and co-founder of Orbit Media studios, and all-round B2B SEO colossus. He’ll take a stab at answering this episode’s question: “Just how can you find the right keywords when you’re working in a super geeky B2B niche?” Or nitch as Americans would say.

David: They do, they do.

Ruth: Plus we’ll hear a copywriting pro tip from Content Designer and UX writer Fiorella Rizzà and we’ll reveal details of a new search to find the best B2B content of all time.

David: Before all that though: Who are we? Well, my name is David McGuire. I’m Creative Director at Radix Communications, a B2B writing agency. And our guest co-host for this episode, I’m delighted to say, is a consultant, B2B tech marketing director, and the resident content marketing expert and trainer for B2B Marketing and Propolis. It’s Ruth Connor! Ruth, welcome.

Ruth: Thank you very much, David, I’m really delighted to be here.

David: As a content marketing expert yourself, where do you find inspiration for content marketing?

Ruth: That’s a great question. And this is something I used to talk a lot about with my team. And we’d always look to actually the BBC and shows like Strictly Come Dancing, Line of Duty, and, more recently, Happy Valley. And that’s because I think the team at the Beeb do a great job of something I’m really passionate about when it comes to content marketing – which is recycling, reusing, and repurposing.

So, taking that big piece of hero content and turning it into loads of different spin-off pieces of content. And I think they do a great job in some of those shows. I think you know you’ve kind of cracked the content marketing nutshell when you find people producing their own content because they’re so passionate about those shows. And I think the last few weeks on social media and Happy Valley just shows the strength of the sentiment for those shows.

David: Wow. So if you’re in search of B2B marketing inspiration for your content, look to Happy Valley, look to Strictly and the way that they atomise things. That’s an amazing thought to start us off on this episode.

Before we get on to answering this episode’s question, though, Ruth, would you mind performing your first official duty as co-host, and telling the listener how they can get in touch with us?

Ruth: I’d love to David. Listener, if you have any comments or suggestions you can find Radix on LinkedIn (radix-communications-ltd) or Twitter (@radixcom).

Or if you want us to answer your question on a future episode, record a quick voice note and send it by email to: [email protected].

David: That is perfect. Thank you so much.

Ruth: Now it’s time for the B2BQ&A for this episode. And our question comes from a very familiar voice.

Emily: Hi, B2BQ&A. This is Emily King from Bluefruit Software. I just had a question about how to effectively find out which keywords your target audience is using in their searches.

So, it’s one thing to know what you call your product or service, but it’s another to know what your potential audience is actually calling it and what they’re using in their searches. So, how do you find this out?

David: How lovely to hear from you again, Emily. Listener, in case you didn’t know, Emily actually started this podcast almost exactly 10 years ago. And for that, we’re endlessly grateful.

But anyway, let’s get on with Emily’s question, which speaks to a bigger point. How can you make SEO work for you when you’re dealing with niche B2B audiences and subjects? And do you reach a point where talking to your customers is better than doing digital research?

To answer we have an SEO and content marketing expert whom I’ve wanted to have on the podcast for basically as long as I can remember. Orbit Media CMO, Andy Crestodina publishes such helpful well-researched advice on digital content, I just knew he’d have something interesting to say here.

So I asked him Emily’s question: How can you find the right SEO keywords, when you work in a geeky B2B niche?

Andy Crestodina: If you’re in a B2B niche, especially a small one, you actually have big opportunities in search that some of the bigger companies might miss. So, it’s exciting to do SEO in a micro-niche for B2B. Niche companies tend to be smaller, which means in a way they have a bigger challenge because they don’t have super-high domain authority and difficulty ranking.

That actually is a benefit, it just pushes you towards the less competitive, longer tail, less popular – but also much more targeted – key phrases.

So it’s not a problem that you’re a smaller online player when you’re in a niche, when you’re targeting the more specific phrases, you can’t target the big general phrases. But those phrases are not as valuable as it might seem anyway, because you know less about the visitor; the visitor does not have strong intent.

People who search for single words or the business category, very hard to convert them, because they’re less likely to have a specific need to look for a specific answer to need a specific service.

So the niche is really where all the fun is, in B2B keyword research. You can find phrases that a small number of people are searching for, but they’re thrilled when they find you. The click-through rates are high, the conversion rates are high. So, it’s an enormous opportunity.

And it’s something that the big companies will often miss. So there’s plenty of blue ocean in those longer three-, four-, or five-word key phrases that others fail to catch or to target, and that you can really target and win what might just be a trickle of traffic, but they’re very passionate, very engaged visitors.

David: How hard is it to find out among that ocean of key phrases, which are the ones that your audience, in particular, are really interested in?

Andy: Every key phrase equals intent. So when you think about the true story in the life of the person who just typed that on their keyboard – and it’s happening right now, as we speak all over the world – the more specific the key phrase, the more you know about their information needs.

So if you think about keywords as being intent, you can target key phrases and therefore intent, that is at different stages in the person’s process, as they consider options. Some key phrases are simply information intent queries, they’re looking for an answer, they want to solve their problem themselves. They’re not at all interested in buying or becoming a lead event for anything.

Other key phrases indicate strong commercial or transaction intent. They’ve got their wallet out there ready to go, they know they need help, they’ve given up on every other option they need, they need help, they’re raising their hand, they need a service. So I would always prioritise beginning your keyword research and content, content marketing and conversion, copywriting and SEO, with the bottom of the funnel.

Start by targeting the key phrases that indicate the person really needs help. And those are generally going to be not content marketing; typically, they’re like service pages. Start by optimizing your homepage, as that’s the page for which you have the best chance of ranking.

Next, optimize your service pages. Those pages have strong intent, the visitor is looking for help they know they need, they need a service or a product. The problem with using software and tools to do your keyword research for you is that they don’t really know or care what your audience is looking for. They don’t know you; they don’t know them.

Sometimes, what you might think of as a blockbuster key phrase, like “Hey, we rank really high for this, you know, ‘What is the sales tax in this geography?’” Like, great, that person just wanted a quick answer. They’re never going to convert, they’re never going to convert!

David: And is there a role for maybe interviewing or talking to real customers, or maybe even talking to your salespeople to get a view of the questions that real people ask, and how they kind of map to intent?

Andy: The ultimate source of keywords is your audience. And there’s lots of ways to get that. One of them is, of course, talking to people. And if you get asked the same question two or three times you should be answering that question in your content.

But when I do that – and when we all do that (and we all should) – search is not your primary concern. Because once you write this article, you can literally send it to exactly the person who asked you the question.

Who needs Google? – you’re already talking to this person.

So, what we should do is listen for the topics that our audience really, really cares about. Put plans in place to publish on those topics. And then as we’re publishing look for keyword opportunities.

Some will have keyword opportunities; some will not have keyword opportunities. If you write the thing that your audience really loves and wants and you give it to them, but there wasn’t a keyword related to it, you can publish it an adjacent topic that does add the keyword that links to this great piece you made. But yes, I think empathy is the ultimate marketing skill.

There’s other sources of empathy, such as if you have a site search tool, and people are searching for a phrase – that’s a source of empathy. And then sometimes, of course, the keyword research tools, and Google itself will tell you what people are looking for related to your topic or your industry works like a charm.

David: Are there other opportunities or trends with search at the moment that are particularly relevant to B2B tech?

Andy: Well, there’s a risk and a threat in search right now that we should all be aware of, which is, as I alluded to a minute ago, none of us should be targeting phrases for which there’s just a short, simple answer.

The number of searches for which the click-through rate is zero keeps growing because Google gets more informative on its own platform. So we should all be looking for opportunities to write content that is yes, keyword focused, but also, the answer to the question the visitor is asking is deep and long with details, because Google’s search results are so informative. Click-through rates to websites are on the decline.

So, target key phrases which give up the I. Remember years ago, we used to publish glossaries? Remember this SEO strategy? We’re like, “Oh, I’ll make a big glossary and answer, you know, tell everyone with the top…” No, that doesn’t work at all anymore. No traffic at all.

So, target key phrases for which the best answer is very long and detailed and 2000 words and you can’t get it in a Featured Snippet.

David: Any final tips for the audience of B2B tech marketers when they’re thinking about keyword research or optimising their content? While we have a world expert with us, the audience would be upset with me if I didn’t ask.

Andy: The ultimate in the best advice is: when you’re publishing a piece of content related to a search, that you literally make a sincere attempt to create the best page on the internet for that topic.

You’re not doing SEO if you’re not sincerely trying to make one of the top 10 pages on the internet. You have no right to rank if you made another medium-quality piece.

But also, as you do this, don’t forget to inject your own voice; say something that’s provocative or counterintuitive. Inject it into this keyword-focused piece that’s going to touch on all the related topics and semantic SEO and subheads and detail, but put yourself in there and throw in some strong points of view.

Search is, of course, library science. It’s an information retrieval technology. But your reader has a brain with an amygdala and can feel emotion.

So if you want to be memorable, and not just a lovely Wikipedia for your industry, then don’t forget that some of the best results from digital come from differentiated voices, strong points of view, Op-Ed. You know, the counterintuitive prediction or perspective of voice. Put people into your articles and include contributor quotes from people with interesting ideas.

Don’t just rank high, be interesting – and have fun.

David: Andy, thank you so much. If the audience want to hear more from you, more of your points of view and your wisdom, where can they best find you?

Andy: I write an article every two weeks at orbitmedia.com. So orbitmedia.com/blog is where you find the main source of my stuff. I put it all together into a book called Content Chemistry.

And also LinkedIn would be my best social media platform. You can connect with me on LinkedIn. The blue button that says Follow? You can skip that and go down to Connect. You know how that works. But yeah, anyone’s welcome to reach out anytime. I’m happy to help however I can.

David: Thanks, Andy. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard so much clear, valuable advice in just a few minutes.

Ruth, you’re an experienced marketing leader, as well as a content marketing expert in your own right. You must have enjoyed that, right?

Ruth: I thought it was great. I thought it was super helpful. And I think what really kind of my takeaway is: when you’re working in a niche tech sector, some of the more generic pieces of advice you get around keyword research just aren’t that helpful, because they don’t cut the mustard for the space you work in.

But Andy got straight to the point of giving us some really helpful pointers as to how we could get started.

One of the things I do think we should also mention, though, is first off Andy talks about both the fun and opportunity for those B2B marketers working in niche tech sectors. And truthfully everybody needs fun and opportunity in their role. So I thought that was a great starting point from Andy.

David: Yeah, absolutely. And as a marketer yourself, do you find it difficult to know, kind of search terms, and use the research as a starting point for good content? Where do you go to?

Ruth: That’s a great question, and I always start with the customer.

Because I really believe that nothing interesting happens in the office. And what I mean by that is marketing teams need to get out there and speak to their customers, speak to their client-facing colleagues, to maybe sit in on meetings, go to trade shows with them, ask the Client Advisory Board, ask the user group, wherever you can get in front of customers, and get a real sense of how they talk about the challenges or pain points or issues that they face in to really understand the language that they use.

I’m picking up on something that Andy mentioned, I also feel that those conversations and those bits of insights really give you the topics that your audience is passionate about and care about. And I think there’s a lot to be said, for producing really helpful content. And I think if you start by listening to what the customer has got to say, tap into the knowledge and insight of your client-facing teams, really unearth these topics that you can tell the audience care about, I really believe when you come to publication, just like Andy said, you can add in the keywords, you can make it a bit more SEO friendly during the publication stage, but it’s all got to start with some customer insight for me.

David: Yeah, and I love that about going to trade shows! I was here like, the listener can’t see, but I was here with my hands in the air like preach, you know, like, just as a younger marketer and a younger copywriter, working on trade shows, even if I wasn’t doing the selling just supporting was so helpful, because I got to hear the conversations that were happening.

And I suppose from that point of view, it’s not either/or, it’s both/and when you work in such a niche market. It’s using those conversations and what you can glean can help you understand where the search intent is in the keyword report and understand what the keyword report means.

And then the other way around, the keyword report can help you understand the language that people are using to address the problems and the questions and the issues that you’ve heard them talk about, whether it’s on a trade show, or writing case studies is another one that I love, because you get to talk to a customer about their thing, and about their challenge and about their world. Like every case study makes me a better writer.

Ruth: Definitely. And you know, David, I think what you’ve just said picks up on something Andy mentioned as well about every key phrase equals intent, and how you’ve got different key phrases at different stages of the customer journey.

So, for example, if somebody’s right at the start of their customer journey, as content marketers, we tend to focus on producing what we call TOFU content. But this is the kind of content that needs to talk about pain points, challenges, questions – those are the kinds of things we need to be thinking of when we’re thinking about our key phrases and our keywords.

If you’re producing middle-of-the-funnel content, rather, I think that’s when we need to see things that relate more to the solutions that somebody might be searching for.

And then when you get to the bottom of the funnel, that’s where it could be more product focus keywords.

So I think Andy made a really good point about thinking around this premise of every phrase equals intent. And those phrases change depending on where somebody is in their journey.

David: I was interested in what Andy had to say about zero search queries and how that changes the nature of the content that people are producing. Is that something that you see?

Ruth: Actually, I hadn’t really thought about this until I heard this in Andy’s advice. And that got me really thinking about that. And that’s something that I’m definitely going to go away and consider a bit more.

David: Yeah, although AI might change it all, again. If, soon enough, ChatGPT gets pulled into Bing, if Google sorts out Bard, you know, you might have these chatbots answering the questions, instead of a list of search results, perhaps.

Ruth: Yeah, that’s true. Actually hadn’t really thought about it from that context. So that’s really insightful.

David: Anything else that stood out for you?

Ruth: Yeah, one of the things Andy mentioned was about the idea of starting with the bottom-of-the-funnel content first, so bottom-of-the-funnel keyword research, content marketing to support the bottom-of-the-funnel stage.

And I would always, always advocate this as a starting point because, ultimately, a very small number of your target audience are active in the market at any one point in time. And I think you need to be if you’re starting out on your content marketing strategy, or you’re revisiting your content marketing strategy, you will always want to prioritise the most commercial-focused activities first, in my opinion.

I think it wins you friends with the sales team. I think it buys you goodwill from your superiors and your stakeholders to then move back up through the funnel to the different stages. So 100% agree with Andy’s point around starting with the bottom-of-the-funnel content first and then working out through the other layers. So you get, you know, to the top of the funnel.

So yeah, 100% agree with that point.

David: Absolutely. You know, I think when content marketing first became an approach, it was so new and so different, everyone almost kind of the product marketing almost became a dirty word. You know, because that wasn’t what content marketing was about.

But, sometimes, the most helpful thing you can write is about your product for someone who’s at that stage of their buying journey. And absolutely, it needs to be included.

Ruth: What do you think about the persona perspective, in this context, in the sense of Andy talks a lot about mapping it to different stages of the customer journey?

But I also wonder if there’s a case for mapping it to different personas in your buying unit. So you know, for example, you might have a C-suite persona, but then you also might have an end-user persona.

And I guess the same would be true, as the customer journey point too, you probably need to think about the personas that you’re writing for, and think about their journeys that they might go on. So your keywords might be different for the C-suite part of your DMU versus the kind of hands-on end-user DMU.

Or are personas old hat, in your experience now? Have people moved on from them?

David: I don’t know, I must admit, I kind of like an avatar more than a persona, for me.

Ruth: Tell me a bit more about that.

David: I’m fortunate in my career to have had enough lives and to have known enough people and enough clients and whatever, that for most sort of what you might call a persona for most job roles, challenges that people are facing, I can normally think of someone that sort of works in that job.

So I can normally write to a person that I have in mind, rather than a persona. And it’s just a bit more, a bit more real.

And it comes back to the point that you were making right at the beginning around getting out to trade shows and meeting people, you know. Doing case studies, interviews, whatever you can do to meet the customer because you might well meet people that map to those personas and makes that more three-dimensional for you. So you can get from a persona to an avatar. You’re like, “Oh, I’m not, I’m not writing for, you know, the CTO and the automotive sector. I’m writing for Janet.”

Ruth: And I think when you give them a name, and you give them an identity that makes it even more real, and I guess if you can base it on somebody that you’ve actually met in a real-world situation, all the better.

David: Before we finish up this episode, we do have a couple more things to share. First, we have this copywriting pro tip.

Announcer: Copywriting pro tip.

Fiorella Rizzà: Hi, I’m Fiorella Rizzà. I’m a Senior Content Designer. And my writing tip is if you need to read it twice, it’s not good enough.

Ruth: Thanks, Fiorella. It sounds so simple, but it’s so, so effective.

Before we go though, David, I gather you’re looking for some of the best pieces of B2B content ever.

David: Yeah, that’s right. As I mentioned earlier, this is the 10th anniversary of the podcast. So, we thought we’d do something a bit unusual to celebrate. And we’ve set ourselves a challenge to find the best B2B content of all time. I mean, it could be a blog post, a video, ebook, white paper, who knows. But the first stage is: we need to compile a long list of contenders.

So, listener, have a think about content that stuck with you, and please send us a nomination, anything you like on social media, or vote at radix-communications.com.

Speaking of which, Ruth… Do you have a particular favourite you’d like to put forward for the list?

Ruth: I do. You actually, so my favourite piece of content is Vital Stats by Earnest. This got shared with me many moons ago on a content marketing training course at the IDM. And they use this Vital Stats video as an example of a good piece of video content. But as the name suggests, it was also jam-packed with loads of really helpful information around how you could make the case for content marketing in your business. And I went back to the business I was in and I used all the stats in the Vital Stats video to make the case for introducing content marketing in my business at the time.

And frankly, I haven’t looked back.

So, when I went to work in earnest, I actually got to work on I think it was Vital Stats 3, and it was a proper fangirl moment for me, because I loved the first two iterations and now it was my job to help champion Vital Stats 3.

So Vital Stats 1 by Earnest is one of my favourite pieces of content of all time.

David: Amazing. I’m not sure I know it, I think I’ll go and look it up straight away. And we’ll absolutely link to it in the show notes so that the listener can have a have a look, get inspired and send us suggestions of their own as well. Thank you for that.

Ruth, if the listener wants to get in touch with you and chat about content marketing. How can they do that?

Ruth: Oh, you can find me on LinkedIn, drop me a message. I love to have a chat with anybody. Always happy to talk about content marketing and help out wherever I can.

David: Thanks for co-hosting. Also, Ruth, you’re an absolute natural. I do hope you’ve enjoyed it.

Ruth: I’ve had a lot of fun, thank you David for asking me. And I think whilst we’re at it, we should also thank Andy Crestodina for his wisdom and super helpful tips.

And Fiorella Rizzà for that copywriting pro tip because that’s what I think we’ll all remember.

And of course, we must thank Emily King for the question that kicked this whole episode off.

David: Yeah, not to mention kicking off this very podcast. Emily, wherever you are listening. I hope you feel that we’ve done justice to your question.

Remember listener, it could be your question that we answer in a future episode.

Announcer: If you have a question for B2BQ&A to answer, email a voice memo to [email protected]. Or find us on social media.

David: I’ll see you next time for another B2BQ&A. Until then make great content and remember, Google can bring you back 100,000 answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one. I’ve never been shushed by Google though. At least not yet.

4 places to look for inspired B2B content ideas

Posted on by The Radix Team

It’s Friday, somewhere around 2 pm. You hear the Zoom ringtone. It’s your boss calling. “Quick, I need you to whip up some new content ideas – original ones that are going to get people excited about this new product. And have them on my desk by the end of play.”

You think: “New content ideas that are going to appeal to our audience’s interests, provide a solution to their challenges, keep them engaged, and I’ve got less than a day to come up with them?”

It’s a challenging brief – and on any other day, you’d go to an experienced B2B copywriter to help. But in this case, there’s no time.

Even worse, you already used your best ideas in a previous campaign, and the cogs in your brain have seized up after a long week. Inspiration has well and truly left the building.

So, what do you do? How do you find the spark again? Where is inspiration hiding? Here’s where to look.

1. AnswerThePublic will tell you what your audience is thinking

AnswerThePublic is a search listening tool for market and customer insights that pays attention to autocomplete data from search engines. It provides a direct line to what your customers (and admittedly, everyone else) are thinking.

Use it to track trends, and generate content ideas that reflect what people might want to know based on what they’re already searching.

2. Your team are the experts – make the most of their insights

If you want to produce more targeted content that will speak to your specific market, you need to look closer to home. As far as we know, Google processes at least 2 trillion searches a year. That’s around 3.8 million searches every hour. But these searches won’t all come from current or potential customers, or from folks with a robust understanding of the hot topics in your industry.

Your team are experts about your products and services, the industry, and current trends – and they might have ideas of their own to contribute. Your salespeople, in particular, are talking to customers all the time, determining their interests and challenges. So get in touch with your team and use their expertise to fuel your creativity.

3. See what generative AI has got to say

We’ve already investigated if generative AI can write like a B2B copywriter (spoiler alert: not quite yet), but how does it fare at generating content ideas?

With a well-thought-out prompt, AI solutions like ChatGPT can churn out a lot of ideas in seconds. But these chatbots are designed to borrow and collate ideas from other sources, which means they’re unable to produce unique ideas. (Plus, you don’t know how many other marketers are asking for the same thing and receiving very similar results to you.)

It’s not all bad news. The AI-generated content ideas might just be the thing to get your cogs turning again, and give you a starting point where you can add your own personal touches.

4. Don’t do anything at all – not a single thing

Really, I mean it. I’ve stolen the idea from Andrew Boulton, freelance copywriter, lecturer and brand language consultant. In Andrew’s list of 99 ways to have more fun as a copywriter (and possibly get a bit better at it), he says:

  • “Let yourself be idle – your brain will thank you, and reward you.”
  • “Treat your imagination like a puppy – feed it, walk it, let it snooze, clean up its poop, treasure it always.”
  • “Don’t type a thing until the words are bursting out of you.”

These ideas might feel counterproductive, but sometimes the best thing you can do for yourself and your brain is just to take a break. You never know what ideas might come to you when you’re not even trying.

Okay, let’s replay the scene…

It’s Friday, somewhere around 2 pm. You’re full of excitement for the weekend when you hear the Zoom ringtone. It’s your boss calling. “Quick, I need you to whip up some new content ideas – original ones that are going to get people excited about this new product. And have them on my desk by the end of play.”

You think: “New content ideas that are going to appeal to our audience’s interests, provide a solution to their challenges, and keep them interested? I know exactly where to start.”

And, hey, if there’s a twist of fate and the deadline gets pushed, leave it up to the experts.

Radix Copycast episode 3 – getting to grips with storytelling in B2B

Posted on by The Radix Team

Telling stories is a hot topic in B2B marketing, as evidenced by recent articles covering transmedia storytelling and brand storytelling, among many others. But with so many different techniques and approaches being discussed, we wanted to take a closer look at what storytelling actually is, and how B2B marketers can use it to best effect.

Emily and Fiona are joined by James Henry*, a television scriptwriter with titles like Green Wing, Shaun the Sheep and Bob the Builder under his belt, and several comedy and drama projects currently in development with the BBC and independent producers.

We believe marketers can learn a great deal from professional storytellers like James. Listen to this episode and find out:

  • The difference between a story and a series of events
  • What makes an engaging story
  • How the three-act structure works in business
  • The importance of a “relatable character”
  • Why brand storytelling is not customer friendly
  • How companies can use the seven basic plots to create stories about their customers (like this video from AtTask)
  • … and more

Download the episode here (right-click and “save as” to download). Or listen in the player at the top of the page.

You can subscribe to the podcast on iTunes here.

Music by Industrial and Marine.

* Disclosure: James is Fiona’s husband, podcast relationship-spotters.