What is synthetic data? And why should B2B marketers care?

Like so many next-big-things, the generative AI wave is towing a host of cottage industries in its wake. One of the most fascinating is the synthetic data industry.

I think it’s worth the attention of any B2B tech marketer because it reveals the complex challenges, opportunities, and risks of generative AI in microcosm – and because the best content about AI acknowledges and navigates that complexity.

Synthetic data: a solution to AI’s biggest obstacles

All AI models must be trained on extensive data. And the more general the task, the greater the variety and volume of data the model needs before it can respond with accuracy and confidence.

But collecting data volumes from the real world poses several issues:

  • Sourcing huge amounts of data is time-consuming and really expensive.
  • It can be hard to find data on uncommon or edge-case scenarios (think MRI scans of rare medical conditions or images of a machine experiencing a one-in-a-million fault).
  • There are privacy and copyright issues with using certain online datasets (such as data gleaned from social media platforms).
  • Data produced by humans can carry human biases.

Synthetic data promises a solution to many of these problems. Unlike conventional data used to train AI models, synthetic data is artificially generated, so it isn’t bound by the confines of reality.

For example, if you were training an AI to assess fuel efficiency across different commercial aircraft, you could use synthetic data generated by flight simulators instead of collecting real-world aircraft telemetry data from hundreds of flights.

By creating artificial data at scale, you can get more data at a lower cost without the copyright complications or biases of human-generated data. And you can also design datasets covering phenomena seldom seen in real life.

Synthetic data’s ability to remove all these roadblocks is so great that last summer, Gartner predicted 60% of data for AI will be synthetic by 2024.

The use cases unlocked by synthetic data

Computer vision models, which need training on large volumes of high-quality images, have been one of the first forms of AI to benefit from synthetic data. But there are many other use cases for synthetic data in its many forms, including:

  • Genomic data to train AI healthcare solutions on rare diseases – without breaching patient confidentiality.
  • Images of different (and potentially unreleased) products to train automatic defect recognition on manufacturing lines.
  • Financial records to develop fraud detection systems without using personal financial information.

Whatever task you want to train an AI model for, it’s likely that synthetic data can help make that process faster, more consistent, and cheaper.

The risk of AI eating itself

With so many use cases for synthetic data, there’s naturally a lot of demand. And one way to meet that demand is… with the help of generative AI. We’re already seeing some vendors working to build a closed loop for AI – where generative AI creates synthetic data that’s then fed into other AI models.

But this Ouroboros model of AI has its critics. When researcher Jathan Sadowski looked into the phenomenon, he found models that were “so heavily trained on the outputs of other generative AIs that [they] become an inbred mutant”.

A consumer-facing model spouting nonsense might, at worst, damage a brand’s reputation. But such degradation in a model designed to detect security risks for IT systems or cancerous cells in medical imaging could have catastrophic effects.

The implications for B2B tech companies and marketers

We’re still in the early days of this new generation of AI and the synthetic data that will support it. And with the major NASDAQ staples investing heavily in the space, any problems will have serious resources and talent thrown at them until they’re resolved.

So perhaps in the future, we will have something approaching a synthetic data utopia that leads to unfathomably powerful AI. But for now, we have a fork in the road that everyone in the B2B technology sector must navigate carefully.

Any story about synthetic data must be embraced with positivity and the hope that it will crack the code of training society-enhancing AI models. But we must also be ready to ask the most pressing questions about how synthetic data production can scale. And the level of scrutiny must be dialled up as generative AI and synthetic data training increasingly come into contact with critical, high-risk sectors like healthcare, education, and government.

More importantly, B2B tech marketers must be ready to openly discuss these challenges in any content that speaks about synthetic data and generative AI. Our audience is clever, connected, and very comfortable managing risk. They won’t be put off by an acknowledgment of the potential pitfalls and challenges in the field. In fact, they may find the honesty refreshing and ultimately trust the message and the brand behind it all the more.

Recommended further reading

If you want to learn more about synthetic data and AI, there are plenty of articles exploring this fast-growing field.

While it was written just before the recent AI renaissance, Forbes ran an article covering some of the major use cases for synthetic data and the earliest players in the industry. It’s a great place to start if you want a broad overview of the topic.

And for a clearer look at the potential risks associated with synthetic data, this interview with machine learning researchers Sina Alemohammad and Josue Casco-Rodriguez offers an expert outlook on what happens when AI consumes data created by other AI models.

Star power: Can nuclear fusion fuel the earth?

We spend a lot of time writing about the impact of global warming, from mitigating the risks of climate change to accelerating decarbonisation and renewable energy adoption. And if I’ve learnt one thing, it’s that if the world doesn’t speed up its decarbonisation efforts, humanity could be facing a desolate future.

Solar and wind power are both brilliant steps in the right direction, but when there’s no wind and the sun isn’t shining, we can’t use them to produce electricity. So, what are the alternatives?

Imagine if there was a way to power the world that was clean, carbon free, and possible whatever the weather.

The answer could be written in the stars.

These giant balls of plasma generate an abundance of energy through a process known as nuclear fusion. But is it a process we could ever recreate on earth?

We already have nuclear energy. So what is fusion?

Today, nuclear power plants use a process called nuclear fission to produce energy.

Nuclear fission uses unstable atomic isotopes (like uranium 235) and harnesses the energy they create as they decay. It’s highly efficient and doesn’t generate carbon dioxide. However, fission does create some pretty nasty waste products that can stay radioactive for millions of years.

Typically, power plants use geological disposal to handle this waste – burying radioactive material deep underground so thick layers of rock can stop radiation reaching the earth’s surface.

But if that doesn’t happen because of disaster or meltdown, it can be utterly devastating.

Instead of using elemental decay, nuclear fusion combines two isotopes of hydrogen: deuterium and tritium (which are abundant in water and lithium). This creates an atom of helium, a lone neutron, and a lot of energy.

In fact, fusion can generate nearly 4 million times more energy per kilogram of fuel than oil or coal, with no carbon emissions at all. There’s also no long-term radioactivity; only the beta-emitting ingredient tritium, which has a short half-life of just over 12 years. And there’s no risk of meltdowns, as fusion reactions can’t sustain themselves outside of a reactor.

It’s a lot safer than fission. But it’s also far more difficult to achieve.

Major developments are paving the way for fusion on earth

To make fusion reactions happen, scientists need to overcome deuterium and tritium’s natural electromagnetic repulsion. For that, they need to create a huge amount of heat and pressure.

Currently scientists are looking at two key methods to achieve this: magnets and lasers. And recently there have been major breakthroughs in both.

South Korea’s electromagnetic tokamak

South Korea’s “Artificial Sun” is a type of fusion reactor called a tokamak. It’s a donut shaped device that uses magnetic coils to create the intense conditions needed for nuclear fusion. These magnets produce a twisted magnetic field, causing deuterium and tritium atoms to collide and creating energy that heats the walls of the reactor. This heat can then convert water to steam which powers turbines and generates usable electricity.

In 2022, the Artificial Sun sustained a temperature of 100 million degrees Celsius for 30 seconds, and the team are aiming for 5 minutes by the end of 2026. It’s an unimaginable temperature. To put it into context, the centre of the Sun is only a puny 15 million degrees Celsius.

The lasers of America’s National Ignition Facility

In the US, the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory has used lasers to achieve the first ever net energy gain from nuclear fusion. Physicists fired 192 lasers at a target chamber containing deuterium and tritium, causing a huge implosion of energy that forced the atoms to fuse and release energy.

To be useful to humanity, the energy produced needs to be greater than the energy put in. And the US team has now achieved this not just once, but four times.

Nuclear fusion could be the future of clean energy

Nuclear energy is gaining traction worldwide. It was formally specified as one of the solutions to climate change in the COP28 agreement, and many governments are now pledging more funding for nuclear research.

Current fusion science is a far cry from the cold fusion controversies of the 20th century, and every new development gets us closer to achieving a clean, carbon-free, and near-infinite energy source.

I’m fortunate enough to get to write about electrification and renewable energy in my work at Radix, and it’s so exciting to think that one day – albeit in a few decades – I might be writing about fusion energy in the same way.

If you’re a bit of a physics geek like me, and curious to learn more about nuclear fusion, the International Atomic Energy Agency is a great place to start.

Why it’s time for B2B marketers to enter the data mesh

B2B marketers love data. Marketing was one of the first business functions to put big bets on analytics and automation, and today, the best B2B marketing campaigns are driven by data. It might not always be complete or accurate, but data helps talented marketers set the general direction of their campaigns and pin their instincts on something tangible.

But what if marketers could easily access trusted data (and lots of it) and use that data to deliver better results?

What if they could uncover new insights hidden in data throughout the business – and use them to create hyper-personalised content and more effective campaigns?

What if they could imagine possible futures for their campaigns and quickly test their hypotheses to see what works?

Well, in a data mesh, they can.

What’s a data mesh? And why should marketers care?

In large, complex organisations with monolithic data architectures, accessing timely, relevant insights can be a laborious process. It relies on specialist data teams to drag insights kicking and screaming out of a central data lake.

The data mesh approach helps overcome these difficulties by decentralising the data architecture and making each domain (marketing, sales, product, etc.) the owner of the data it produces. It’s an approach that’s been growing in popularity over the last few years (which explains why tech consultancies often ask us to write about it) as large enterprises look for ways to reduce organisational and operational complexity.

In a data mesh, the people closest to the data are responsible for managing it and using it to create “data products” that solve their most pressing issues or open up new opportunities.

Federated data ownership removes the operational bottlenecks of centralised structures, so marketers can access and use data how they need to, when they need to. And with data products visible and accessible on a self-service platform, everyone can access products built by other domains and combine them in useful new ways.

New marketing opportunities – and responsibilities – in the data mesh

The data mesh approach empowers marketers to cut out the middleman and start experimenting with their data to find ways to improve content and campaign results. When data users become data owners, the possibilities are limitless.

Marketers who build and own data products can understand their customers and prospects better than ever. They can optimise their campaigns on the fly and conduct low-risk, high-reward experiments with different approaches. They can even begin to create the kind of hyper-personalised content and communications that most marketers can only dream of.

More than most business functions, marketing thrives on data from across the organisation. Insights from sales, service, product, R&D, manufacturing, supply chain, and more can all add valuable context to marketers existing knowledge about their customers.

With a data mesh approach, marketers can easily access data products from other business functions to quickly create new capabilities. For example, combining product and sales data products with a customer-intent data product might help marketers target specific prospects with campaigns that are more likely to land.

But before we get too carried away, it’s important to remember that federated ownership also means federated responsibility. In a data mesh, every domain is a data custodian, so marketing becomes responsible for the governance, compliance, and quality of its data.

Meaningful change takes time

Adopting a data mesh approach requires a fundamental cultural shift; it’s a completely different way of thinking about data and how it’s managed, governed, and used.

This shift in mindset includes a switch to what technologists call “product thinking”, where success is defined by the outcomes products deliver, rather than the outputs of projects. It might also require changes in how teams are structured and how they operate. And it will certainly involve fostering a new culture of cross-functional collaboration, as different business units contribute to combined data products.

It’s not something that happens overnight, and it can take years for large organisations to successfully embed the data mesh approach. But if you’re looking for a long-term, strategic approach to getting more bang for your marketing buck, data mesh could be a conversation worth having with your colleagues in IT and elsewhere in the business.

Stay up to date with what’s next in tech 

If you’d like to keep up with how emerging tech trends can have a big impact on B2B marketing – and get practical advice on other ways to maximise the value of your content – sign up for our newsletter.

Thin Slicing: What B2B marketers can learn from the agile software development practice

B2B marketers are great at coming up with creative campaigns and content ideas. But all too often, long approval cycles, restricted budgets, and the sheer scale and complexity of those ideas make them difficult to bring to life at speed.

Fortunately, marketers aren’t the only ones experiencing those challenges. Our colleagues over in the world of software development are up against them too, and they’ve devised some transformational new practices to help overcome them. And there’s one in particular that B2B marketers may be able to borrow.

Thin slicing is an Agile practice where large projects are sliced up into smaller deliverables and launched iteratively, rather than all at once. In our Turtl doc below, we explore how thin slicing can help B2B marketers both prove and improve the ROI of their campaigns and content.

Click to read Thin Slicing for Marketing

From call to brief to copy – what’s the Radix copywriting process?

Content marketing is by no means a niche service, but to our knowledge, Radix is something of a unique business.

Unlike other agencies in the B2B marketing sector, we dedicate ourselves fully to B2B technology copywriting. We’re driven to do the best job we can, so we focus on doing one job, really well.

While it sounds simple on paper, we’re often asked by prospective clients what it really looks like to work with us – and how their project will fit into our daily workflows.

Let me take you on a journey through a typical blog post project at Radix, and hopefully answer the titular question: “Just what is your copywriting process?”

Setting the scene: a new blog brief

It’s time for a little make-believe. Today, one of our regular clients needs a blog post about the latest digital transformation trends in their industry.

In classic Choose Your Own Adventure style, our client has two paths by which they can proceed:

  1. Describe the required content to their Radix account manager so we can book time out with a writer best suited to the job and, if required, book in a briefing call.
  2. Use the standardised Radix briefing template to send a full, written brief to their account manager. (Again, we can book in a briefing call if further insight is needed.)

In most scenarios, we’ll recommend the briefing call as this gives the allocated writer an opportunity to clarify exactly what is required, such as:

  • Who is the content for?
  • Where will it live?
  • What’s its purpose?

In cases where we are engaging with a new client, or it’s a more substantial project, the process can be a little more complex.

Account Director Sarah explains: “If it’s a complicated topic, or a new client, the project will first go to a content lead to evaluate. If needed, we may also arrange a briefing call before booking in time with the writer. Then, all that’s left before writing an outline or a first draft is to send the client a quote for approval and confirm the timeframe for delivery.”

Does your content need an outline?

So far, we’ve:

  • Received word of an exciting new brief
  • Identified the best writer for the job
  • (Probably) had a briefing call to clarify the story
  • Agreed on a quote and timeframe for delivery

Nice. Everything’s looking good.

Now it’s time for our writer to either whip up an outline or jump right into the first draft. With blogs, our writers will often have everything they need from the briefing (and maybe a little desk research) to begin the first draft.

With bigger writing projects – such as case studies or white papers – we tend to write an outline first. That way, changes in project direction or messaging can be easily identified and actioned ahead of any substantial copywriting – potentially saving time, money, and frustration.

Once you’re happy with the outline, the writing itself can begin.

*Intermission*

Delivering your copy

Upon completing the first draft, our writer will proofread your copy before passing it on to a content lead or appropriate peer to review. This is where our in-house quality control process begins (and, in the best-case scenario, ends).

If the reviewer spots anything that needs changing, the writer will be brought back in to make the necessary amends before notifying your account manager that your copy is ready to deliver.

Only when we’re completely happy do you get to read the first draft. If you or your stakeholders identify further changes, or the scope of the project changes, the account manager will reserve time with the original writer to revisit the content. We may also arrange a follow-up call to clarify what needs to happen next.

To ensure the piece is completed as efficiently as possible, we will always track our changes and, if required, explain the thought process behind any adjustments we’ve made – especially if the amends required a little compromise. In cases of scope change, this will likely require an additional call or written correspondence with the writer to set expectations.

Managing client-writer expectations

When it comes to the amends process, we recognise that we’re delivering a product and, as they say in retail, “the customer is always right”. While that’s true most of the time, we prefer to see our work as a collaboration in which both parties learn from each other (and in turn, get the best outcome possible: damned good copy).

We work really hard to make your copy as good as it can be. But if we’ve missed the mark, that’s on us; we’ll always swallow our pride and put things right. If we disagree with a change you’ve suggested, we may try to compromise with a different approach (and explain it in the comments). But as fellow writer Nick said in his write-up on lessons learned at the Copywriting Conference:

“If the feedback is along the lines of, ‘I envisioned something different’ then this should ring alarm bells for future projects, to make sure expectations on both sides are clearly set out from the start.”

Communication matters, so never hesitate to flag any concerns or queries with us regardless of progress through a given project. The most important thing is that you get the right content to achieve the results you want.

Working with Radix

Of course, this is just one example of how a project can go. To discuss our process in greater detail, or see if we’re the right copywriting agency for you, please contact us here or give us a call on +44(0)1326 373592.

B2BQ&A 110: How can you find the right SEO keywords for niche B2B content?

Researching keywords is relatively easy in a popular B2C market – where data is plentiful and vocabulary is simple. But how do you find search intent in the rarefied world of B2B tech? That’s what Emily King from Bluefruit Software wants to know:

“It’s one thing to know what you call your product or service, but it’s another to know what your potential audience is actually using in their searches. So how do you find this out?”

Such an important question needs a very special guest… so we went straight to the top: Andy Crestodina from Orbit Media. Andy literally wrote the book on SEO and content marketing, and we’re thrilled to have him on the podcast.

And we don’t just have Andy’s sage advice for you. In this month’s episode, we’re joined by guest co-host Ruth Connor, Content Marketing Specialist at B2B Marketing and Propolis. You’ll also hear a copywriting pro tip from UX writer Fiorella Rizzà, and there’s news of an exciting challenge to mark the 10th anniversary of this podcast.

You’ll find a full transcript of this episode at the end of this post.

Want to find the right keywords for B2B tech? Here are Andy’s five tips:

1. Embrace the B2B niche

Writing for smaller companies that focus on niche B2B tech has opportunities in search that some of the bigger companies might miss.

Andy explains: “If you don’t have super-high domain authority, that’s a benefit because it pushes you towards key phrases that are less popular – but much more targeted. The niche is where the fun is: you can find phrases that a small number of people are searching for, but they’re thrilled when they find you. The click-through and conversion rates are high. It’s an enormous opportunity.

2. Prioritise the bottom of the funnel

Andy recommends targeting the key phrases that indicate strong commercial or transaction intent – the person who has their wallet out, but just needs a bit of help.

“Start by optimising your homepage,” he advises. “That’s the page for which you have the best chance of ranking. Next, optimise your service pages. Those pages have strong intent; the visitor is looking for help – they need a service or a product.”

3. Empathy is the ultimate search marketing skill

Andy suggests the ultimate source of keywords is your own audience.

“If you get asked the same question two or three times you should be answering that question in your content,” he says. “We listen out for the topics that our audience really, really cares about. We put plans in place to publish on those topics. And then, as we’re publishing, we look for keyword opportunities.”

4. Target key phrases for which the best answer is very long and detailed

The number of searches for which the click-through rate is zero keeps growing because Google’s Featured Snippets are so informative.

According to Andy: “We should all be looking for opportunities to write content that is keyword focused, but also where the answer to the question is deep and long with details.”

5. Don’t just rank high; be interesting

The days of fooling search engines with low-quality filler content are long gone. “You’re not doing SEO if you’re not sincerely trying to make one of the top 10 pages on the internet,” Andy proposes. “You have no right to rank if you made another medium-quality piece.”

“But also, as you do this, don’t forget to inject your own voice; say something that’s provocative or counterintuitive. Put people into your articles and include contributor quotes from people with interesting ideas.”

Further reading (and watching)…

Here’s what you can expect in this episode…

1:59 – Ruth Connor explains why the BBC is a role model for content atomisation

5:11 – David McGuire poses Emily King’s question to Andy Crestodina

13:54 – Ruth and David discuss personas and the importance of talking to customers

23:49 – UX writer Fiorelli Rizzà shares a copywriting pro tip

24:15 – David McGuire announces a new challenge to mark our 10th anniversary

Got a question? We’ll find the answer.

To get your burning B2B content questions answered, just send us a voice memo at [email protected]. And if there are any other thoughts you’d like to share, you can find us on LinkedIn, or Twitter @radixcom.

How to listen: 

Credits

  • Thank you, Andy Crestodina, for sharing so much SEO wisdom.
  • Cheers also to Fiorella Rizzà for this month’s copywriting pro tip.
  • And of course thanks to to Ruth Connor – our excellent guest co-host.

Podcast editing and music by Bang and Smash.

Transcript: B2BQ&A 110 – How can you find the right SEO keywords for niche B2B content?

Emily King: It’s one thing to know what you call your product or service, but it’s another to know what your potential audience is actually using in their searches. So how do you find this out?

Ruth Connor: That’s a brilliant question. Let’s ask Andy Crestodina from Orbit Media.

David McGuire: Hello listener, and welcome back to B2BQ&A, the podcast where we go in search of an answer to your question about B2B content writing. We’re back for a new season, and this is Episode 110.

Ruth: Wow, Episode 110. That feels pretty special.

David: 10 years.

Ruth: That’s incredible. That’s incredible. Well, in a few moments, we’re gonna hear from Andy Crestodina, the CMO and co-founder of Orbit Media studios, and all-round B2B SEO colossus. He’ll take a stab at answering this episode’s question: “Just how can you find the right keywords when you’re working in a super geeky B2B niche?” Or nitch as Americans would say.

David: They do, they do.

Ruth: Plus we’ll hear a copywriting pro tip from Content Designer and UX writer Fiorella Rizzà and we’ll reveal details of a new search to find the best B2B content of all time.

David: Before all that though: Who are we? Well, my name is David McGuire. I’m Creative Director at Radix Communications, a B2B writing agency. And our guest co-host for this episode, I’m delighted to say, is a consultant, B2B tech marketing director, and the resident content marketing expert and trainer for B2B Marketing and Propolis. It’s Ruth Connor! Ruth, welcome.

Ruth: Thank you very much, David, I’m really delighted to be here.

David: As a content marketing expert yourself, where do you find inspiration for content marketing?

Ruth: That’s a great question. And this is something I used to talk a lot about with my team. And we’d always look to actually the BBC and shows like Strictly Come Dancing, Line of Duty, and, more recently, Happy Valley. And that’s because I think the team at the Beeb do a great job of something I’m really passionate about when it comes to content marketing – which is recycling, reusing, and repurposing.

So, taking that big piece of hero content and turning it into loads of different spin-off pieces of content. And I think they do a great job in some of those shows. I think you know you’ve kind of cracked the content marketing nutshell when you find people producing their own content because they’re so passionate about those shows. And I think the last few weeks on social media and Happy Valley just shows the strength of the sentiment for those shows.

David: Wow. So if you’re in search of B2B marketing inspiration for your content, look to Happy Valley, look to Strictly and the way that they atomise things. That’s an amazing thought to start us off on this episode.

Before we get on to answering this episode’s question, though, Ruth, would you mind performing your first official duty as co-host, and telling the listener how they can get in touch with us?

Ruth: I’d love to David. Listener, if you have any comments or suggestions you can find Radix on LinkedIn (radix-communications-ltd) or Twitter (@radixcom).

Or if you want us to answer your question on a future episode, record a quick voice note and send it by email to: [email protected].

David: That is perfect. Thank you so much.

Ruth: Now it’s time for the B2BQ&A for this episode. And our question comes from a very familiar voice.

Emily: Hi, B2BQ&A. This is Emily King from Bluefruit Software. I just had a question about how to effectively find out which keywords your target audience is using in their searches.

So, it’s one thing to know what you call your product or service, but it’s another to know what your potential audience is actually calling it and what they’re using in their searches. So, how do you find this out?

David: How lovely to hear from you again, Emily. Listener, in case you didn’t know, Emily actually started this podcast almost exactly 10 years ago. And for that, we’re endlessly grateful.

But anyway, let’s get on with Emily’s question, which speaks to a bigger point. How can you make SEO work for you when you’re dealing with niche B2B audiences and subjects? And do you reach a point where talking to your customers is better than doing digital research?

To answer we have an SEO and content marketing expert whom I’ve wanted to have on the podcast for basically as long as I can remember. Orbit Media CMO, Andy Crestodina publishes such helpful well-researched advice on digital content, I just knew he’d have something interesting to say here.

So I asked him Emily’s question: How can you find the right SEO keywords, when you work in a geeky B2B niche?

Andy Crestodina: If you’re in a B2B niche, especially a small one, you actually have big opportunities in search that some of the bigger companies might miss. So, it’s exciting to do SEO in a micro-niche for B2B. Niche companies tend to be smaller, which means in a way they have a bigger challenge because they don’t have super-high domain authority and difficulty ranking.

That actually is a benefit, it just pushes you towards the less competitive, longer tail, less popular – but also much more targeted – key phrases.

So it’s not a problem that you’re a smaller online player when you’re in a niche, when you’re targeting the more specific phrases, you can’t target the big general phrases. But those phrases are not as valuable as it might seem anyway, because you know less about the visitor; the visitor does not have strong intent.

People who search for single words or the business category, very hard to convert them, because they’re less likely to have a specific need to look for a specific answer to need a specific service.

So the niche is really where all the fun is, in B2B keyword research. You can find phrases that a small number of people are searching for, but they’re thrilled when they find you. The click-through rates are high, the conversion rates are high. So, it’s an enormous opportunity.

And it’s something that the big companies will often miss. So there’s plenty of blue ocean in those longer three-, four-, or five-word key phrases that others fail to catch or to target, and that you can really target and win what might just be a trickle of traffic, but they’re very passionate, very engaged visitors.

David: How hard is it to find out among that ocean of key phrases, which are the ones that your audience, in particular, are really interested in?

Andy: Every key phrase equals intent. So when you think about the true story in the life of the person who just typed that on their keyboard – and it’s happening right now, as we speak all over the world – the more specific the key phrase, the more you know about their information needs.

So if you think about keywords as being intent, you can target key phrases and therefore intent, that is at different stages in the person’s process, as they consider options. Some key phrases are simply information intent queries, they’re looking for an answer, they want to solve their problem themselves. They’re not at all interested in buying or becoming a lead event for anything.

Other key phrases indicate strong commercial or transaction intent. They’ve got their wallet out there ready to go, they know they need help, they’ve given up on every other option they need, they need help, they’re raising their hand, they need a service. So I would always prioritise beginning your keyword research and content, content marketing and conversion, copywriting and SEO, with the bottom of the funnel.

Start by targeting the key phrases that indicate the person really needs help. And those are generally going to be not content marketing; typically, they’re like service pages. Start by optimizing your homepage, as that’s the page for which you have the best chance of ranking.

Next, optimize your service pages. Those pages have strong intent, the visitor is looking for help they know they need, they need a service or a product. The problem with using software and tools to do your keyword research for you is that they don’t really know or care what your audience is looking for. They don’t know you; they don’t know them.

Sometimes, what you might think of as a blockbuster key phrase, like “Hey, we rank really high for this, you know, ‘What is the sales tax in this geography?’” Like, great, that person just wanted a quick answer. They’re never going to convert, they’re never going to convert!

David: And is there a role for maybe interviewing or talking to real customers, or maybe even talking to your salespeople to get a view of the questions that real people ask, and how they kind of map to intent?

Andy: The ultimate source of keywords is your audience. And there’s lots of ways to get that. One of them is, of course, talking to people. And if you get asked the same question two or three times you should be answering that question in your content.

But when I do that – and when we all do that (and we all should) – search is not your primary concern. Because once you write this article, you can literally send it to exactly the person who asked you the question.

Who needs Google? – you’re already talking to this person.

So, what we should do is listen for the topics that our audience really, really cares about. Put plans in place to publish on those topics. And then as we’re publishing look for keyword opportunities.

Some will have keyword opportunities; some will not have keyword opportunities. If you write the thing that your audience really loves and wants and you give it to them, but there wasn’t a keyword related to it, you can publish it an adjacent topic that does add the keyword that links to this great piece you made. But yes, I think empathy is the ultimate marketing skill.

There’s other sources of empathy, such as if you have a site search tool, and people are searching for a phrase – that’s a source of empathy. And then sometimes, of course, the keyword research tools, and Google itself will tell you what people are looking for related to your topic or your industry works like a charm.

David: Are there other opportunities or trends with search at the moment that are particularly relevant to B2B tech?

Andy: Well, there’s a risk and a threat in search right now that we should all be aware of, which is, as I alluded to a minute ago, none of us should be targeting phrases for which there’s just a short, simple answer.

The number of searches for which the click-through rate is zero keeps growing because Google gets more informative on its own platform. So we should all be looking for opportunities to write content that is yes, keyword focused, but also, the answer to the question the visitor is asking is deep and long with details, because Google’s search results are so informative. Click-through rates to websites are on the decline.

So, target key phrases which give up the I. Remember years ago, we used to publish glossaries? Remember this SEO strategy? We’re like, “Oh, I’ll make a big glossary and answer, you know, tell everyone with the top…” No, that doesn’t work at all anymore. No traffic at all.

So, target key phrases for which the best answer is very long and detailed and 2000 words and you can’t get it in a Featured Snippet.

David: Any final tips for the audience of B2B tech marketers when they’re thinking about keyword research or optimising their content? While we have a world expert with us, the audience would be upset with me if I didn’t ask.

Andy: The ultimate in the best advice is: when you’re publishing a piece of content related to a search, that you literally make a sincere attempt to create the best page on the internet for that topic.

You’re not doing SEO if you’re not sincerely trying to make one of the top 10 pages on the internet. You have no right to rank if you made another medium-quality piece.

But also, as you do this, don’t forget to inject your own voice; say something that’s provocative or counterintuitive. Inject it into this keyword-focused piece that’s going to touch on all the related topics and semantic SEO and subheads and detail, but put yourself in there and throw in some strong points of view.

Search is, of course, library science. It’s an information retrieval technology. But your reader has a brain with an amygdala and can feel emotion.

So if you want to be memorable, and not just a lovely Wikipedia for your industry, then don’t forget that some of the best results from digital come from differentiated voices, strong points of view, Op-Ed. You know, the counterintuitive prediction or perspective of voice. Put people into your articles and include contributor quotes from people with interesting ideas.

Don’t just rank high, be interesting – and have fun.

David: Andy, thank you so much. If the audience want to hear more from you, more of your points of view and your wisdom, where can they best find you?

Andy: I write an article every two weeks at orbitmedia.com. So orbitmedia.com/blog is where you find the main source of my stuff. I put it all together into a book called Content Chemistry.

And also LinkedIn would be my best social media platform. You can connect with me on LinkedIn. The blue button that says Follow? You can skip that and go down to Connect. You know how that works. But yeah, anyone’s welcome to reach out anytime. I’m happy to help however I can.

David: Thanks, Andy. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard so much clear, valuable advice in just a few minutes.

Ruth, you’re an experienced marketing leader, as well as a content marketing expert in your own right. You must have enjoyed that, right?

Ruth: I thought it was great. I thought it was super helpful. And I think what really kind of my takeaway is: when you’re working in a niche tech sector, some of the more generic pieces of advice you get around keyword research just aren’t that helpful, because they don’t cut the mustard for the space you work in.

But Andy got straight to the point of giving us some really helpful pointers as to how we could get started.

One of the things I do think we should also mention, though, is first off Andy talks about both the fun and opportunity for those B2B marketers working in niche tech sectors. And truthfully everybody needs fun and opportunity in their role. So I thought that was a great starting point from Andy.

David: Yeah, absolutely. And as a marketer yourself, do you find it difficult to know, kind of search terms, and use the research as a starting point for good content? Where do you go to?

Ruth: That’s a great question, and I always start with the customer.

Because I really believe that nothing interesting happens in the office. And what I mean by that is marketing teams need to get out there and speak to their customers, speak to their client-facing colleagues, to maybe sit in on meetings, go to trade shows with them, ask the Client Advisory Board, ask the user group, wherever you can get in front of customers, and get a real sense of how they talk about the challenges or pain points or issues that they face in to really understand the language that they use.

I’m picking up on something that Andy mentioned, I also feel that those conversations and those bits of insights really give you the topics that your audience is passionate about and care about. And I think there’s a lot to be said, for producing really helpful content. And I think if you start by listening to what the customer has got to say, tap into the knowledge and insight of your client-facing teams, really unearth these topics that you can tell the audience care about, I really believe when you come to publication, just like Andy said, you can add in the keywords, you can make it a bit more SEO friendly during the publication stage, but it’s all got to start with some customer insight for me.

David: Yeah, and I love that about going to trade shows! I was here like, the listener can’t see, but I was here with my hands in the air like preach, you know, like, just as a younger marketer and a younger copywriter, working on trade shows, even if I wasn’t doing the selling just supporting was so helpful, because I got to hear the conversations that were happening.

And I suppose from that point of view, it’s not either/or, it’s both/and when you work in such a niche market. It’s using those conversations and what you can glean can help you understand where the search intent is in the keyword report and understand what the keyword report means.

And then the other way around, the keyword report can help you understand the language that people are using to address the problems and the questions and the issues that you’ve heard them talk about, whether it’s on a trade show, or writing case studies is another one that I love, because you get to talk to a customer about their thing, and about their challenge and about their world. Like every case study makes me a better writer.

Ruth: Definitely. And you know, David, I think what you’ve just said picks up on something Andy mentioned as well about every key phrase equals intent, and how you’ve got different key phrases at different stages of the customer journey.

So, for example, if somebody’s right at the start of their customer journey, as content marketers, we tend to focus on producing what we call TOFU content. But this is the kind of content that needs to talk about pain points, challenges, questions – those are the kinds of things we need to be thinking of when we’re thinking about our key phrases and our keywords.

If you’re producing middle-of-the-funnel content, rather, I think that’s when we need to see things that relate more to the solutions that somebody might be searching for.

And then when you get to the bottom of the funnel, that’s where it could be more product focus keywords.

So I think Andy made a really good point about thinking around this premise of every phrase equals intent. And those phrases change depending on where somebody is in their journey.

David: I was interested in what Andy had to say about zero search queries and how that changes the nature of the content that people are producing. Is that something that you see?

Ruth: Actually, I hadn’t really thought about this until I heard this in Andy’s advice. And that got me really thinking about that. And that’s something that I’m definitely going to go away and consider a bit more.

David: Yeah, although AI might change it all, again. If, soon enough, ChatGPT gets pulled into Bing, if Google sorts out Bard, you know, you might have these chatbots answering the questions, instead of a list of search results, perhaps.

Ruth: Yeah, that’s true. Actually hadn’t really thought about it from that context. So that’s really insightful.

David: Anything else that stood out for you?

Ruth: Yeah, one of the things Andy mentioned was about the idea of starting with the bottom-of-the-funnel content first, so bottom-of-the-funnel keyword research, content marketing to support the bottom-of-the-funnel stage.

And I would always, always advocate this as a starting point because, ultimately, a very small number of your target audience are active in the market at any one point in time. And I think you need to be if you’re starting out on your content marketing strategy, or you’re revisiting your content marketing strategy, you will always want to prioritise the most commercial-focused activities first, in my opinion.

I think it wins you friends with the sales team. I think it buys you goodwill from your superiors and your stakeholders to then move back up through the funnel to the different stages. So 100% agree with Andy’s point around starting with the bottom-of-the-funnel content first and then working out through the other layers. So you get, you know, to the top of the funnel.

So yeah, 100% agree with that point.

David: Absolutely. You know, I think when content marketing first became an approach, it was so new and so different, everyone almost kind of the product marketing almost became a dirty word. You know, because that wasn’t what content marketing was about.

But, sometimes, the most helpful thing you can write is about your product for someone who’s at that stage of their buying journey. And absolutely, it needs to be included.

Ruth: What do you think about the persona perspective, in this context, in the sense of Andy talks a lot about mapping it to different stages of the customer journey?

But I also wonder if there’s a case for mapping it to different personas in your buying unit. So you know, for example, you might have a C-suite persona, but then you also might have an end-user persona.

And I guess the same would be true, as the customer journey point too, you probably need to think about the personas that you’re writing for, and think about their journeys that they might go on. So your keywords might be different for the C-suite part of your DMU versus the kind of hands-on end-user DMU.

Or are personas old hat, in your experience now? Have people moved on from them?

David: I don’t know, I must admit, I kind of like an avatar more than a persona, for me.

Ruth: Tell me a bit more about that.

David: I’m fortunate in my career to have had enough lives and to have known enough people and enough clients and whatever, that for most sort of what you might call a persona for most job roles, challenges that people are facing, I can normally think of someone that sort of works in that job.

So I can normally write to a person that I have in mind, rather than a persona. And it’s just a bit more, a bit more real.

And it comes back to the point that you were making right at the beginning around getting out to trade shows and meeting people, you know. Doing case studies, interviews, whatever you can do to meet the customer because you might well meet people that map to those personas and makes that more three-dimensional for you. So you can get from a persona to an avatar. You’re like, “Oh, I’m not, I’m not writing for, you know, the CTO and the automotive sector. I’m writing for Janet.”

Ruth: And I think when you give them a name, and you give them an identity that makes it even more real, and I guess if you can base it on somebody that you’ve actually met in a real-world situation, all the better.

David: Before we finish up this episode, we do have a couple more things to share. First, we have this copywriting pro tip.

Announcer: Copywriting pro tip.

Fiorella Rizzà: Hi, I’m Fiorella Rizzà. I’m a Senior Content Designer. And my writing tip is if you need to read it twice, it’s not good enough.

Ruth: Thanks, Fiorella. It sounds so simple, but it’s so, so effective.

Before we go though, David, I gather you’re looking for some of the best pieces of B2B content ever.

David: Yeah, that’s right. As I mentioned earlier, this is the 10th anniversary of the podcast. So, we thought we’d do something a bit unusual to celebrate. And we’ve set ourselves a challenge to find the best B2B content of all time. I mean, it could be a blog post, a video, ebook, white paper, who knows. But the first stage is: we need to compile a long list of contenders.

So, listener, have a think about content that stuck with you, and please send us a nomination, anything you like on social media, or vote at radix-communications.com.

Speaking of which, Ruth… Do you have a particular favourite you’d like to put forward for the list?

Ruth: I do. You actually, so my favourite piece of content is Vital Stats by Earnest. This got shared with me many moons ago on a content marketing training course at the IDM. And they use this Vital Stats video as an example of a good piece of video content. But as the name suggests, it was also jam-packed with loads of really helpful information around how you could make the case for content marketing in your business. And I went back to the business I was in and I used all the stats in the Vital Stats video to make the case for introducing content marketing in my business at the time.

And frankly, I haven’t looked back.

So, when I went to work in earnest, I actually got to work on I think it was Vital Stats 3, and it was a proper fangirl moment for me, because I loved the first two iterations and now it was my job to help champion Vital Stats 3.

So Vital Stats 1 by Earnest is one of my favourite pieces of content of all time.

David: Amazing. I’m not sure I know it, I think I’ll go and look it up straight away. And we’ll absolutely link to it in the show notes so that the listener can have a have a look, get inspired and send us suggestions of their own as well. Thank you for that.

Ruth, if the listener wants to get in touch with you and chat about content marketing. How can they do that?

Ruth: Oh, you can find me on LinkedIn, drop me a message. I love to have a chat with anybody. Always happy to talk about content marketing and help out wherever I can.

David: Thanks for co-hosting. Also, Ruth, you’re an absolute natural. I do hope you’ve enjoyed it.

Ruth: I’ve had a lot of fun, thank you David for asking me. And I think whilst we’re at it, we should also thank Andy Crestodina for his wisdom and super helpful tips.

And Fiorella Rizzà for that copywriting pro tip because that’s what I think we’ll all remember.

And of course, we must thank Emily King for the question that kicked this whole episode off.

David: Yeah, not to mention kicking off this very podcast. Emily, wherever you are listening. I hope you feel that we’ve done justice to your question.

Remember listener, it could be your question that we answer in a future episode.

Announcer: If you have a question for B2BQ&A to answer, email a voice memo to [email protected]. Or find us on social media.

David: I’ll see you next time for another B2BQ&A. Until then make great content and remember, Google can bring you back 100,000 answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one. I’ve never been shushed by Google though. At least not yet.

7 ways to make your B2B writing more inclusive

The B2B tech industry isn’t run by robots (yet), but by actual, real people who exist outside of their offices and away from their laptops.

It can be easy to forget, but these people have interests, friends, and gender identities, as well as being executives and decision-makers at our favourite companies.

So if you’re a B2B marketer, inclusive language can play a huge part in ensuring your reader feels recognised and engaged.

To find out more, we spoke to Ettie Bailey-King, an inclusive and accessible communication consultant. Here’s what we learnt.

Why is inclusive language so important?

For starters, customer expectations have changed dramatically. The B2C market is rapidly adopting inclusive language, and it’s transforming the marketing industry.

If customers are used to respectful and inclusive communication in one industry, they won’t stand for less anywhere else – so B2B needs to keep up.

“We’re constantly surrounded by content – at work, at home, on social media,” says Ettie. “And thoughtful content makes us feel safe and welcomed. For example, an advert that says ‘everyone’, instead of the binary gender options of man or woman. Or an email that avoids gendered salutations like ‘Ms’ and ‘Mr’, and just says ‘Hi Ettie’. For many of us, those changes won’t feel like a big deal. But if you’re questioning your gender identity, for example, then those small changes can be the difference between a painful experience, and a safe and welcoming one.”

Even if you don’t think you’re talking to people who are trans, non-binary, or gender-nonconforming, that’s no reason to avoid using inclusive pronouns and language. According to Stonewall, around 1% of the UK population might be transgender, including non-binary people. Already, that’s roughly 600,000 people – but we’re a long way from knowing what the real figures look like.

“The comparison that activists always use is left-handedness,” says Ettie. “When left-handedness was stigmatised, numbers were around 2%. And when children were actually allowed to freely use the hand of their choice – if you look at the graphs, you’ll see an explosion in left-handedness.”

These days, around 12% of the UK write with their left hand.

There are so many reasons why inclusive writing is important – and they go beyond B2B marketing objectives.

“Inclusive writing is sometimes presented as a fun, happy add-on to make our businesses seem warmer. But it’s got a serious purpose. The world just isn’t safe for some people – for example, many transgender and gender non-conforming people are discriminated against, or at risk of terrible violence,” says Ettie. “It’s important to keep that in mind. So if we’re struggling to motivate ourselves to do the learning, we should remember that using LGBTQIA+ inclusive language has a real impact. For example, using someone’s correct pronouns can reduce their risk of suicide.”

As Ettie says, pronouns are incredibly important. To use them correctly, you’ll need to understand and be familiar with different types.

Let’s talk about chosen preferred pronouns

Pronouns are a big part of inclusive language and, for the record, they’re just that – pronouns. They’re not “chosen” or “preferred”, much like someone’s name isn’t “chosen”.

You might need to know your client’s pronouns (or your client’s client’s pronouns if you’re writing a case study about them). For example, “Matt’s Head of Copy at Radix Communications. He’s been in the role for 11 years.”

Or if you’re engaged in conversation and need to refer to somebody else: “Have you met Matt? He’s great.” Whenever you’re using pronouns, it’s important to do it correctly, even if they’re unfamiliar to you.

After “she/her”, “he/him”, and “they/them”, the most common member-defined pronouns on LinkedIn are:

  1. “she/they”
  2. “he/they”
  3. “they/she”
  4. “they/he”
  5. “any pronouns”

There’s a reason LinkedIn has counted “she/they” and “they/she” separately. For pronouns like these, you can’t assume someone has a preference, or what that preference is.

“Everyone’s different,” says Ettie. “When someone gives mixed pronouns, it might be because they strongly prefer the first one, they’re equally happy with each, or they’d rather you don’t use the second one and it’s just there as a backup (for example, for people who struggle to use singular ‘they’). If you can’t check with someone, I’d use the first pronoun. But if you can, take a few seconds to check which one they prefer.”

Neopronouns like “xe/xem/xyr” (pronounced zee/zem/zeer) or “ze/hir/hirs” (pronounced zee/heer/heers) are examples of popular gender-neutral pronouns, and are often used by non-binary or transgender people. You can practice using them and other gender-neutral pronouns using this tool, made 100% by gender-diverse and same-sex-attracted youth. This table published by the Office of Intercultural Engagement at UNC Greensboro might also be helpful.

But while understanding different pronouns and how to use them is crucial, it’s not the only thing we can do to make our B2B writing more inclusive.

7 ways to make your writing more inclusive

Ettie gave us advice on some of the current best practices for inclusive writing, and other things you can do to make sure all your readers feel recognised.

1. Shift your team’s mindset

A lot of us have been trained to write in a gender binary way – think “ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls” – and need to go on a learning journey to transform our writing.

If you’re part of a marketing team, this shift in mindset needs to be a collective experience. Start with sharing resources like podcasts, make or join a book club, and help others get exposed to stories and people outside the gender binary.

2. Always ask if you can

If you’re not sure of someone’s pronouns (and you have the opportunity to), ask. And if you can’t, then default to gender-inclusive language until you’re sure of someone’s pronouns – which could be after you’re expected to submit a first draft.

“In B2B, it’s less likely you’re going to be speaking and learning directly from people,” says Ettie. “But describing people accurately is so important. If you don’t know what pronoun someone uses, or how they describe themselves, always check. And if you can’t – they’re unavailable and no one knows the answer – then use gender-neutral terms like ‘they’. Or, you could just use their name instead, like ‘Ashley is Sales Director and Ashley will take over the new team.’”

Ettie’s default in her own writing is to use “they”, and it’s something people have been doing since the 1300s. You can then clarify and correct pronouns in the feedback process.

3. Why default to “they” when you can use “you”?

Defaulting to “they” is definitely an inclusive option when writing about people. But if you’re writing content that’s directed to someone, you can go one step further.

Using second-person address is not only inclusive – “you” knows no gender – but also a great tool for engagement. When you speak directly to your reader, they feel involved and engaged. In short, it’s good copywriting.

Second-person address helps to keep things simple, which is also more accessible. “If there’s one rule, it’s to not overthink it,” says Ettie. “Sometimes, by trying to be inclusive we end up with long and elaborate phrases, which can weigh our copy down. For example, if you’re trying to write a concise slogan, do you need to say ‘people who menstruate’ or ‘people with a vulva’? Maybe you can just say ‘you’.”

4. Treat pronouns like names

If you’re confused or in doubt about unfamiliar pronouns, Lal Zimman, a sociocultural linguist, says to treat them like they’re names. Here’s a rundown of what Lal says:

You can’t tell what a person’s name is just from looking at them, so if you want to know it you have to ask. And asking someone’s name is a totally normal question. In fact, it’s more likely to be considered rude if you don’t ask for someone’s name when first meeting them.

Names are treated as facts, and people don’t generally argue about them. It’s important to remember names, even if they’re unusual, or hard to pronounce or spell. And it’s important to get someone’s name right, even if you don’t like it or them.

People don’t insist that there are a limited number of names, and they know there are names they’ve never heard of. And sometimes people change their names, too – for example, when getting married – and that’s totally accepted.

5. And if you mess up…

Politely apologise, correct yourself, and move on. And don’t forget to be kind to yourself.

“We do need to gender people correctly, because it really matters,” says Ettie. “But while we’re learning, we should give ourselves permission to find it difficult and confusing. It really can be! Don’t panic or overthink it. Be firm but patient with yourself – you’ll be amazed how quickly you can learn.”

6. Be a role model

If you’re inclusive with pronouns in your everyday life, in your work and in your style guide, then it’ll translate into the way you write.

You can normalise talking about pronouns by including them in your email signature, your on-screen nickname, on social media profiles and business cards, or by advertising them on your person (think badges and stickers).

And you can go one step further by incorporating pronouns into your marketing. For example, include guest speakers’ pronouns on event invitations and web content.

By being open with pronouns, you’re helping to avoid potentially uncomfortable and awkward conversations. For example, if you’re meeting with someone virtually who has recently changed their pronouns, they can just change their on-screen nickname.

The same goes for people you’re emailing. There’s no need to use “Mr” and “Mrs”, or “Sir/Madam” as your default address. You can just say “hi”, “hello”, “good morning”, or use their name if you know it.

7. Be flexible

You’re not learning a set of rules once and forever. You’re learning something that may be true for now, and might not be true in a year, and that’s okay. Society is changing, and with it people’s pronouns and best practices.

“So you might meet Ashley now, with pronouns ‘they/them’. In a few years, Ashley might be ‘he/him’. That’s okay,” says Ettie. “Don’t panic if people change their pronouns or names. Be grateful that they share them with you.”

Flexibility is a big part of shifting your mindset and changing your patterns. It’s about always putting people before any set of rules or guidelines – including this one. Because for every rule you can come up with, there will always be people who don’t align with it (and that’s okay too).

Here’s where to learn more

Creating inclusive content can make all the difference to your reader feeling accepted, included, and recognised – which is good news for your people, your marketing, and the world in general.

If you’d like to learn more about inclusive communication, check out Ettie Bailey-King’s website Fighting Talk or sign up to her newsletter for quick, practical tips on how you can make your content more inclusive and accessible.

B2BQ&A 104: How can you keep your B2B content fresh?

Nobody likes B2B content that’s repetitive. It’s boring to write and – more importantly – it’s unlikely to be successful if your audience feels like they’ve heard it all before. But if you often have to write about the same products, services and ideas, keeping your content fresh and compelling is easier said than done.

It’s a problem B2B marketers and content creators face all the time. So we were delighted when Chelsea Groome of Fierce Content gave B2BQ&A the perfect excuse to go in search of an answer, by asking:

“If you’ve been working with a client for a long time and their product hasn’t changed much, how do you keep their content fresh?”

Not to brag, but we think we found the *perfect* expert to respond to this.

When you think of an (essentially) one-product B2B brand that still always has a mountain of relevant and valuable things to say, Xero has to be right up there. And Content Strategy Lead Richard Allardice (or “Dice” to his friends) agreed to dive into what marketers and writers need to keep in mind… with bonus insights from his colleagues Amy Stephens and Sarah Webb.

Joining us as guest co-host this month (and sharing some great insights of her own) is Kate Terry, Head of Demand at Turtl. Kate gives her perspective on personalising content down to granular levels and in using analytics and insights to constantly update and improve content.

We also have the joy of hearing from Claire Goodfellow, a copywriter at Radix, for the copywriting tip of the month. Stay tuned to learn the secret to clear, concise sentences.

You’ll find a full transcript of our podcast at the end of this post.

So, just how do you keep B2B content fresh?

Between Dice, his colleagues, and Kate, there’s plenty of advice in this episode. Here’s a handful of suggestions…

1. Consider the wider landscape

Your product might not change much, but the challenges your target audience face probably do. So think about the wider context: where, how, and why your product is used.

“Your product isn’t the only thing that changes,” says Dice. “The people who use your product will change; what they understand will change; things in the world will change.”

Remember, the information your customers need extends beyond your specific product. So if you’re struggling to keep your content fresh, consider angles that might be indirectly related to your main focus. Use your organisation’s broader sector expertise, and you’ll likely build up a relationship of trust between your audience and your brand.

2. Lose the “publish and done” mindset

With all the work that goes into creating a content piece, it’s easy to get into the habit of publishing, promoting, then moving on to the next one. But often, digital content can be updated after the fact – so even after you’ve published it’s always a live project.

Kate sees Turtl users doing exactly this. She remarks: “We see people doing things like changing the order of the content, changing the title, trying out different tests to see how the changes make an impact on readership.”

Dice goes further, and says every content team of a certain size needs to have someone who is specifically tasked with revisiting each piece, and ensuring it’s always up to date.

3. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it

Having said all this, it’s worth remembering you’ll likely get bored of your content before your audience does. Not everything needs to be improved, and not always in the way you might think. So look at the data, and understand what’s working.

“Sometimes the answer is ‘no’,” comments Dice. “Sometimes a feature has not changed, we’ve written it up really well and it works… But things change around that; the context changes. Your company’s style might change, and you might want to weave that back in because otherwise that piece of content is going to start to sound a bit stilted in comparison.”

In this episode, you’ll find…

1:00 – We welcome our co-host Kate Terry, Head of Demand at Turtl

4:00 – We put Chelsea Groome’s question to Dice

22:55 – Kate and David share their highlights and thoughts

28:10 – Our copywriting tip of the month: write succinctly

Have you got a question for B2BQ&A?

We’re here to help! Send us a voice memo at [email protected]. And if there are any other thoughts you’d like to share, you can find us on LinkedIn, or tweet at us: @radixcom.

How to listen

Credits

  • Firstly, thank you to Kate Terry, for all the insight you shared as co-host.
  • Thanks to Chelsea Groome, for your brilliant question.
  • A massive thank you to Dice, Sarah Webb and Amy Stephens for giving us the benefit of your experience.
  • And Claire Goodfellow, thank you for that essential copywriting tip of the month.

Podcast editing and music by Bang and Smash.

Transcript: B2BQ&A 104: How can you keep B2B content fresh?

Chelsea Groome: If you’ve been working with a client for a long time and their product or position hasn’t changed much, how do you keep their content fresh?

Kate Terry: That’s a great question. Let’s ask Dice from Xero.

David McGuire: Hello listener, you are very welcome to B2BQ&A, the podcast where we go in search of an answer to your question about B2B content writing. This is episode 104.

Kate: In a moment, we’ll ask Xero’s Content Strategy Lead Richard Allardice, or Dice to his friends how you keep content fresh when you only have one product. And later we’ll get a copywriting tip of the month from junior copywriter, Claire Goodfellow.

David: Before that some introductions, my name is David McGuire. I’m Creative Director at Radix Communications, the B2B writing agency. And this month, our guest co-host is Turtl’s Head of Demand, Kate Terry. Kate, thanks for joining us.

Kate: Hey, David, thanks for having me today. It’s really great to be here.

David: Oh, it’s fantastic to have you here as guest co-host. Lots of change going on a Turtl and kind of new products and surfaces and things, I understand, lots for you to do.

Kate: Yeah, a lot to do. That’s for sure. We’re in kind of high growth mode right now. So we’re really excited about some of the new product developments that have come out and new ways that we can help people make amazing and engaging B2B content. So yeah, lots coming out of Turtl these days, but all good stuff.

David: Yeah, we talk about Turtl a lot on this show. Listener, there’s no kind of affiliate relationship going on, I promise you. But there’s lots of new things there where there’s kind of more like a personalization, kind of ABM type vibe to it now.

Kate: Yeah, that’s right. So what you can do with Turtl is actually personalise your content at scale down to the individual or account level and you can use all of your data and insight and intent data you have, connect that up and turn that into a really automated process. So it’s a huge leap forward if you’re interested in personalising content down to your end user and then getting data back from them on how they’re engaging and kind of getting really granular account insight.

David: Yeah, I mean, anything that contributes to the death of the PDF is okay in my book. Kate, in your first official duty as guest co-host, would you mind telling the listener how they can get in touch with us?

Kate: I’d be delighted. So listener, if you have any comments or suggestions, you can find Radix on LinkedIn or Twitter @radixcom. Or if you want us to answer your question on a future episode, record a quick voice note and send it by email: [email protected]

David: That’s brilliantly done. Thank you very much.

Kate: Right, it’s time to hear this month’s question. So who do we have?

Chelsea: Hello, this is Chelsea Groome from Fierce Content. And my question is, if you’ve been working with a client for a long time, and their product or position hasn’t changed much, how do you keep their content fresh?

David: Thanks, Chelsea. That’s an important question and something copywriters and marketers have to think about a lot. Though, if it’s okay with you we’ll broaden the terms from talking about just clients, so we can help our in-house listeners too. I’m chuffed to say I got my absolute first pick to answer this question. Because when I think of a brand that’s created a mountain of really fresh content around essentially one product, I think of Xero.

So I was knocked out when their Content Strategy Lead, Dice agreed to tell us how they do it. This is a little longer than one of our usual interviews, but he had so much good stuff to say I think you’re going to want to hear it. I started by asking Dice Chelsea’s question: just how do you keep content fresh?

Dice: Yeah, so I spent a bit of time thinking about this, it in some ways does depend on the size of the company, or the size of the client you’re working with. Because one thing that you know, I’ve experience lately working in a bigger place is that to keep something fresh, it needs to be someone’s job. So someone needs to be tasked with looking after that page or that product or keeping across what’s changing needs to be someone’s responsibility.

And that sounds like a really, you know, obvious thing, but a lot of the time, you know, companies I’ve worked with in the past sometimes people don’t do that. They put something out there excited. It goes out into the world, but it’s not someone’s job to look back and say, “How’s that thing going and does it need changing, and does it need improving?” So I think it’s really important to make it someone’s job to own it, be responsible for it and have the clout to be able to change it.

And another really good point that Amy Stephens who’s a Content Strategist on my team made as well, when we were talking about this, is that part of that job needs to be helping your organisation or your company be comfortable with making changes over time.

So sometimes, if you are working with a client or a company, and there’s a lot of approvals, a lot of review needed, that process is really unwieldy, there’s a bit of a reluctance to change it. Now that we’ve said it live, we don’t want to go back over that again. So part of the job of owning it is to prepare your company or client for the fact that things need to change and be flexible and, and adapt to what’s happening out in the world or happening with your product.

And I guess the other part of that is that it’s not just enough to be someone’s job, that someone needs to be watching regularly, you need to be monitoring. And so what are you actually monitoring, before you put it out there, you need to think about what is effectiveness or success going to mean for this particular thing, and what kind of metrics might be looking at, and you actually need to go and look at them, you know, sometimes I think people, you know, rest on their laurels a little bit, put something out there, it’s beautiful in the moment. But don’t watch to see what happens.

The founder of AppSumo, a guy who I follow called Noah Kagan, he talks a lot about this idea of what you track will grow. So it’s not his own idea. It’s one that he adopted from someone else. But the idea is that if you’re looking at it, and you are paying attention to it, and you’re interested in the numbers, then they will grow because you will, you know, take action or do things, even if they’re minor to, to move those things onward. So what you track will grow, and I’d add to that what you track will improve. So if you are looking at it and monitoring it, then it’s going to get better, as long as you are doing your due diligence.

And I think that if it’s a product, that might mean checking in with the team, and forming a relationship with the team, who build the product, so that you can keep each other abreast of, for example, what’s changing with your target audience. So your product isn’t the only thing that changes, the people who are using your product will change, what they understand will change, things in the world will change.

A really good example of that for us, as a UK example, is Making Tax Digital. So that wasn’t a thing X number of years ago, but then it became a big UK government initiative. And it’s highly related to our product. And so we need to be talking about that, and being really up to date with what has been said about Making Tax Digital, because that’s what our target audience need to know in the hearing. And then they need more information about it.

So you need to be looking at it connected to that product team. So you know what changes are coming ahead of time, you don’t want to be behind there. And you need to be connected to your audience, you need to be talking to them and finding out what they are hearing or not understanding, not just to do with your product, but to do with the landscape. You know, what else? What else is entering that information landscape that they might need to know? Or you might need to adapt according to.

David: Yeah, absolutely. So it’s the product, but it’s also the context in how it gets used and who’s using it and what they’re using it for. And those kinds of things on the kind of copy level, if something is not changing that much like, you know, say there’s a feature in Xero, that’s a popular feature, it’s always been there, and it’ll always will. Is that something where you would change, just kind of on the writing, on a copy level, you’d change up how you write about it regularly? Or is it something where you’re kind of refining it, you’re testing and learning? And if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it, and you can kind of you know, afford to talk about the same thing that the same way.

Dice: I think that there’s something really important in the “if it’s not broken, don’t fix it” thing that you just said. There’s a temptation, I think, when it’s your job to write or refine – or if you’re trying to get work with a client, you know, because you are inherently motivated to get more jobs and do more work – to make change, yeah, to change things and tweak things and carry on.

And I think that impulse is a good one. Because most of the time things can be improved. You know, perfection is hard to achieve. What does perfection even mean? You can improve things but I think that there’s also something that people need to think about is that it doesn’t need to change. Sometimes the answer is no, sometimes it’s a feature that has long acted in the same way, has not changed. We’ve written it up really well and it works.

But you know, like I said, things change around, that the context changes. So your company’s style might change, you might change some things in your style guide, words that you might use or phrases you might use or a proposition or some nicety of language that you might start to use. And you might want to weave that back in. Because otherwise, if you don’t, that piece of content, even if the product stays the same, it’s going to start to sound a bit stilted in comparison to the other stuff.

So what can happen is on a bigger website, the top line pages, the landing pages, the home page, get the latest and greatest sort of brand propositions and feel really fun, if that’s the tone of voice for your company will feel really fresh, out of the deep pages of the product that we built 10 years ago, we generally not specifically Xero, you know, doesn’t have that same tone or the same messaging. And so while the facts or the accuracy might stay the same, the way you talk about it, your tone of voice, and your flow, and your style might need to change as well.

The other thing that happens in a large company is that writers change. So you know, the team of writers or the writer that worked on something a year ago might have changed. And so that’s where, again, this depends on the size of the company, the role of an editor really comes in when you’re looking at your publication, and you’re looking for that evenness.

So I’m the editor, I’m looking at this publication. I often try to think of a website as a publication and you know, having and editor who’s always looking at their publication, and to try and keep it as fresh and interesting. And what have we published before can we bring to the front? What are we trying to push out there that’s new? But you also don’t want to have unevenness, where part of your website is losing connection with what people need, and a part of it is really well connected.

So that might be slightly long-winded answer to your question. But essentially, like I think, yes, you would be careful, you want to just change stuff for the sake of it. And, but you also want to make sure that when new writers come in, and new ideas come in that you actually allow those to come to the surface.

So if a new writer comes in and provides a new perspective on a page, maybe incidentally, “Hey, I’ve just been looking at this page, you’re my colleague, I see that you wrote this a year ago, I think it’s awesome. But I think that, you know, we’re kind of moving to the style of shorter sentences, more clipped. And some of these longer sentences, you know, like, there’s a bit of research out there now that says that people find that kind of hard to read in a digital context. So like, how about we update that based on this new style guide entry we have now which says, we’re trying to aim for sentences of 20 or fewer words.”

Kind of an abstract example. But all of those things together, yes, you should be looking at them and monitoring them. But the level of change should be based on, you know, a few things, including whether it’ll have any impact and whether it’s actually needed.

David:  One of the things that really strikes me about Xero is that in terms of the content that you cover, the field of subject seems to be really pretty broad, but the audience seems to be really clearly defined. So it feels like almost anything that you might want to know about running a small business successfully, you can find on the Xero website. There’s a lot of small business information on there, obviously, there’s, you know, a lot of partner stuff as well.

Is that kind of a conscious thing to kind of own that space, because a lot of your customers are kind of, you know, owner/managers of businesses, so to kind of be a one stop shop like that?

Dice: Yeah, Xero’s business and accounting software, and it does a lot of stuff. You can add any number of, you know, 1000 things to it, you can integrate, almost, you know, so many things with it. And I think that I guess one of the challenges probably in the early days is when people hear accounting, with it comes with some perceptions for a small business person, genuinely of perhaps fear or concern or you know, or a lack of understanding.

So I think what’s really important if you are trying to help people use or promote or get people to use your product, if it’s an area that people may be a little bit anxious about or unsure about, you need to build up trust and authority you need to help people understand or see or get the feeling that you know what you’re talking about.

And so you’re right on the website, there’s a lot of information about our particular features because it’s a very featured product. There are a lot of things that it does. But the other thing we need to do is to help – we’re going back to that idea of the context of that landscape. The landscape in which we exist as a small business, trying to keep across the records and the finances, and you know, it’s a busy time, there’s a lot going on when you’re running a small business, or if they’re an accountant trying to make sure that they are keeping a record so when it comes to them to do their returns, it’s not, you know, problematic.

And so the landscape is already a complicated one, you’re running a business, it’s a lot going on. And so what we need to be able to do, and the content we provide is to assure people, “Hey, we’ve got some products that can help you out, use this product for X thing, we’ve got that covered. Hey, if you are a small business, and you’re trying to run your business, here’s how we can help you do that, here’s how you can choose a business name or here’s how you start a business in this particular country”. And, you know, with the side benefit that if you use Xero that will actually be easier as well. So it is a conscious thing.

So Xero, like many other companies, you know, take one of these strategies on board, which is to both inform people on their product, promote it, and help people within the wider landscape in which they work.

So really, like that depth of content is about generating trust, it’s also about generating awareness. So I might know about the company Xero, and I might go look for it. But I might not know about Xero, I might just have a problem. So my problem is, when I go to my accountant, at the end of the financial year, with a plastic bag full of receipts, they get a little bit irate with me, and suggested that I do something more digitally and modern focused. And so the problem is, you know, how do I do accounting? Or like, how do I keep my record straight, and so they know their problem, they don’t know that we that we have a solution for it.

So if they are looking for that problem, and then we would like to help them with that problem, we would also like them to know that we are a good solution to their problems. So you know that is why, you know, on a website like Xero’s, and this is not a strategy specific to us. You see that different content because we’re trying to solve the “do you know about a product? What does that product do?” problem or question, answer their question, but also answer the like, the use case question of like, “I have this life or business challenge, can you help me out with that?”

David: And there are so many challenges involved in running… I guess that also – going back to the original question – gives you loads of space to find ideas and find new and interesting and fresh perspectives and things to say.

Dice: Yes, yes. Like I think there are lots of different ways to help people feel assured, or calmer or feel like their financial records are taken care of. But also, it’s also worth saying that there are like really classic common things as well, that don’t really change that much.

For example, in these, when it comes to surprise, anybody starting a small business from a single person operation through to 10,20,30, 40 people, like they’re really really busy, you know, there’s just a lot going on, and they don’t have a lot of time, and that I don’t have a lot of time, it’s not something specific to us or our product, it’s just a, like a business challenge. And a difficult thing, because there’s just so much going on.

And in the beginning, you’re really just winging it, you know, especially if you’re just one person. And so while yes, we can put a different spin on or a fresh angle on being across things and being up to date and being ready for tax time. And we do that regularly. Some problems, or some challenges are kind of evergreen, which is that if you’re a business person, you are time poor. And so that’s kind of like a thematic thread that might go through a lot of content for any company publishing for small businesses, including ours.

And so like you kind of have this sort of like deep themes, and then on top of that, you might have a fresh angle. The latest campaign the New Zealand based one is taking tax out of the sort of too-hard basket, their angle is that, you know, people that get feel like taxes and returns are complicated and too hard. And you know, what we are saying is that doesn’t need to be you know, and so that’s, you know, it’s a fresh angle, but on a classic take, which is: tax is complicated. You are busy. We can help you.

David: Yeah. So you’ve been talking with your team. What other practical tips have you got for the listener about how they could keep their content fresh?

Dice: Sure. Okay, so, a couple of great points from Sarah Webb and Amy Stephens on my team. Amy talked a little bit about not just understanding your target audience but understanding the industry,  you know, the wider industry and what’s happening in that area. So what is changing in terms of the words that are used, what is changing in terms of the language or the themes that are emerging in terms of the technology, and what’s available to people.

So obviously, you need to be aware of that as a business where your business sits in there anyway. But as a person dealing with words, you need to also be listening for what language is changing. So you can appear up to date and modern and fresh, as you say.

Another good point that Sarah and my team made was you have to think about being proactive and reactive. So proactive measures of keeping fresh, going out and finding out industry trends, talking to users, monitoring different sources of data. So this is an interesting one that we could do a whole podcast on, which is, how do I listen or understand what people are saying.

So it’s things like looking in search logs, or looking at surveys or looking at other data that people have created, gathered other research that people have done, to understand what people are thinking, what their mental models are, what they don’t understand. So that’s proactively understanding your audience.

And then there’s some reactive stuff, which is when people write to you or say something to you, or you hear customer feedback. And sometimes that customer feedback depending on the size of the company won’t necessarily come directly to you. So you might need to, you know, ask around, is there a source of customer feedback? Do we do surveys, do we have any NPS data, any NPS feedback that we might make use of that’s really…? You want to get that pipeline of information coming towards you, or go and find it.

And also, in terms of being reactive, or proactive, you need to keep across, if you’re not writing everything on your website, which often is not the case. Or if it’s small, maybe you are, you need to be looking across what’s going on everywhere else and making connections.

So if someone else is running the blog, and you’re working on the feature information, you need to make sure that you are sharing notes, and putting things out accordingly so that you are not publishing disparate information, and that actually, they complement each other, you know, so things appear smooth, so that it makes sense when someone lands one in one place versus another and that as a person goes between them it feels coherent, and created deliberately.

David: That’s awesome. Dice, if people want to get more wisdom from you on content, and copy and more stuff like this, where’s the best place for them to hear from you?

Dice: If you have a question, and you want to reach out to me, feel free to follow me on LinkedIn and drop me a message. Always happy to chat.

David: Thanks, Dice for giving us such a full and well-thought-out answer. And thanks to your colleagues to Sarah and Amy, hello to you. Plus, thanks, Chelsea, of course for asking the question in the first place. Kate, there’s a lot in there. Could you pick out something that stood out for you?

Kate: Yeah, definitely. I really liked everything that Dice was saying. And one thing that I think is particularly interesting is this idea that your product isn’t the only thing that changes, I think it’s weirdly easy to forget that if you’re a team who actually is quite focused on what you’re doing, and what you’re bringing to market, and that’s a great place to be in, especially for myself, in demand working with sales, they’re really interested in what exactly we want to say about our product.

But I think you know, from a marketing and content perspective, it’s really important to remember the context that your audience is in, that the individuals you’re speaking to are in. And I really liked that focus that he had on kind of, you know, understanding the context and keeping up with the changes that are happening in the space that everyone’s operating in.

David: Sure. I mean, so much of it is about defining the space where you’re going to write content and understanding what your clients and your customers and prospects want to know about that you know about, as well, you know. For them, it’s, you know, it’s how to run a small business a lot of the time or, you know, and other elements of that.

And then I get, you know, for Turtl, you know, there’s a lot in there about just kind of the psychology of content, and that stuff that people will find interesting. I think one of the things also that I found interesting about Chelsea’s question is where she was saying, “how do I keep it fresh, I keep writing about the same thing all the time”.

And obviously, if you’re writing about the same thing all day, every day, but somebody is reading, once in a while, maybe the stuff doesn’t get as stale as quickly as you think. And maybe you don’t need to change it as quickly as you think. And that was one of the things that I thought was interesting. We’re always more focused on our stuff being the same all the time than perhaps the audience is.

Kate: I think that’s so true. And it’s again, such as easy mistake to make where because it’s not fresh to you, you assume that it’s not fresh to your reader, when actually, it might be working just as well as it did on day one. So I liked what he said about understanding what you do need to change and you know, reinvent and make sure it’s keeping up to date.

But actually, there’s some things that you might not necessarily need to change. So that kind of links up as well to understanding the data and making sure that you are actually tracking what is still working, what is still engaging people versus what might have dropped off and is no longer really resonating with your audience.

David: For a lot of people, of course, it’s all about the content production. And then you know, when you publish the piece that feels like the end of it, and you know, what Dice was saying about having someone whose job it is to go back and check.

One of the things that can be really interesting that you might have a perspective on is, obviously Turtl is a format that you can keep changing stuff live, after you’ve published it. And I’m kind of interested, do people actually go back and do that? Or do they have this attitude that once it’s done, it’s done and they’re on to the next thing?

Kate: Yes, people definitely go back and change and update and tweak their content. It’s something that we really encourage our customers to do. And it’s something where they’ve never really had access to the data to be able to do that in a meaningful way. So it’s pretty exciting, because it gives you a new way of working where instead of, you know, we like to think about the kind of old school publication mindset versus this more evergreen mindset.

And it actually changes the way you think about content all the way from when you’re creating it down to when you publish it, because if you publish it with the idea that you can go back and update it in mind, you’re going to have more, you know, it just informs how you actually write it, the kind of way that you write it, maybe in a way that you can either go back and regularly update it to keep it fresh, or just recognising it as like a pillar piece of content that you can create other things off the back of.

So what we see is people doing things like changing the order of the content, changing the title, trying out different tests, where they’ll run and see how different changes make an impact on readership and on the different pieces of the content that people engage with.

And even things like images, you know, you can really get as granular as you want to with testing things out. But one of the things we really like to talk about is this evergreen strategy, and how can you actually repurpose the content you already have and make the most of it?

David: Yeah, I think that’s probably a whole different podcast there. But that change in mindset from publication and done, to “this is a thing that’s live and your contents a thing that you have to keep working on”. I think some people… “I’ve not got time to write the stuff that I’ve got to write now, let alone keep it up to date!” But, you know, that’s absolutely the case that now that we’re in the digital world, there’s no reason for it to be one and done, I guess.

Kate: Yeah, exactly. Now it’s time to hear our copywriting tip of the month. So it’s from a Junior Copywriter at Radix, Claire Goodfellow.

Claire Goodfellow: Hi, I’m Claire, a Junior Copywriter at Radix. And my favourite copywriting tip is to use fewer words. Read over your sentences and ask yourself, can I say the same thing in less words? The chances are that if you can, it will make your writing clearer, more readable, and more concise.

Kate: Thanks, Claire. I love that tip. Brevity is so important. And it’s really great advice that I’ll pass along to my team as well.

David: I’m sorry to say that it’s all we have time for this episode – already! Kate, please would you thank this month’s contributors.

Kate: I would love to so thank you to Chelsea for such an awesome question. And of course, to Dice for answering it with help from Sarah and Amy, and thanks to Claire for the great copywriting tip.

David: And thank you, Kate, you’ve been an excellent co-host. It’s like you do this all the time. I hope it hasn’t been too painful.

Kate: Not too painful, no. Thanks so much for having me. I really enjoyed it and learned a few great tips to take away as well.

David: Oh, thank you. It’s great to have you here. Listener, remember it could be your question we answer in a future episode. If you have a question for B2BQ&A to answer email a voice memo to [email protected]. Or find us on social media.

I’ll see you next month for another B2BQ&A when we will try to answer the question: how do you measure content quality? Until then, make good content and remember, do one thing every day that scares you. BOO! There; there’s today’s. You’re welcome.

Kate and David: Goodbye!

 

B2BQ&A 102: Why is there so little humour in B2B content?

This month’s B2B content question comes from Alistair Ross, who wants to know: “Why is there so little humour in B2B content?”

It’s a fair question. At a time when everyone in B2B is talking about the importance of emotion and brand likeability, content in the sector seems to be getting more and more serious. In fact, 69% of our pals on LinkedIn said there’s less funny content now than there used to be.

To answer Alistair’s question, we’ve enlisted comedian and copywriter Lianna Patch, an expert in using humour to boost conversion rates.

As well as considering why funny content feels so scary, Lianna shares some tips to help you avoid potential pitfalls and get off to a great start.

We also get a perspective from this month’s guest co-host, Radix Senior Copywriter Katy Eddy, and hear a copywriting tip of the month from our Head of Copy, Matt Godfrey – who tells us how to write a great opening line to get readers hooked.

You’ll find a full transcript of the episode at the end of this post.

Funny B2B content: where should you begin?

If you think about it, there’s a lot about work which is kind of ridiculous. So it’s no wonder Lianna thinks there’s plenty of scope for B2B marketers to use humour to good effect. Helpfully, she shared three tips to help you do it well:

1. Emails are a safe place to start

If you’re experimenting with humour, emails are a good place to begin. It’s a personal space where you’re building a one-to-one relationship with your reader, and gives you the chance to warm things up before reaching for the jokes. First, flex your tone a little – making it friendlier and less formal – so when you introduce humour it feels more natural, and less of a shock.

2. Observational humour works well – especially in B2B

Observational humour is one of the safest styles, because neither you nor the reader are the butt of the joke. Instead, you’re commenting on something you can both observe – whether it’s a pop culture reference, or something about the industry you’re writing for. If you can laugh together at an aspect of the job, it shows you understand how they’re feeling.

3. Don’t make a joke in isolation; help your reader too

Humour can be a powerful way to defuse a difficult situation. But you can’t leave it there, or your reader will feel like the joke’s on them. Instead, end your communication by explaining, very clearly, how you’re going to help. As Lianna puts it: “I know you’ve been waiting a thousand lifetimes for this delivery – so in the meantime, here’s what we can do…”

In this episode, you’ll find…

1:00 – We welcome our co-host, Katy Eddy, to B2BQ&A.

2:40 – We put Alistair Ross’s question to Lianna Patch.

13:20 – Katy and David share best and worst examples of humour in content.

21:20 – Matt Godfrey supplies our copywriting tip of the month.

Have you got a question for B2BQ&A?

We’ll find the answer! Send us a voice memo at [email protected]. And if there are any other thoughts you’d like to share, you can find us on LinkedIn, or tweet at us: @radixcom.

How to listen

Credits

  • Firstly, thank you, Katy, for being a brilliant co-host.
  • Thanks to Alistair Ross of LogicLogicMagic for your thought-provoking question.
  • And Lianna Patch for giving us an excellent answer and lots of useful tips. (Lianna promises to overshare about her personal life on Twitter.)
  • Thanks to Matt Godfrey and his (strangely Australian-sounding) robot twin for that dazzling copywriting tip of the month.
  • And last but not least, thank you to everyone who contributed to the LinkedIn vote and discussion, especially Andrew Last, André Spiteri, and Craig Clarke.

Podcast editing and music by Bang and Smash.

Transcript – B2BQ&A 102: Why is there so little humour in B2B content?

Alistair Ross: Why is there so little humour in B2B content?

Katy Eddy: That’s an excellent question. Let’s ask… Lianna Patch!

David McGuire: Hello, listener, you are very welcome to B2BQ&A, the podcast where we go in search for an answer to your question about B2B content writing. This is episode 102.

Katy: In a moment, we’ll ask comedian and copywriter Lianna patch a question from Alistair Ross: why is there so little funny content and B2B? Lianna will also share some pointers to help you use humour well in your own copy. And we’ll hear copywriting tip of the month from Radix’s own head of copy, Matt Godfrey.

David: Well, sort of.

Katy: Kinda.

David: My name is David McGuire. I’m creative director at Radix Communications, the B2B writing agency, and this month, our guest co-host is none other than Radix’s senior copywriter Katy Eddy, and we’re actually in the same room for the first time in what feels like years. Katy, welcome.

Katy: Thank you. Thank you for having me back. Firstly, I’d like to apologise to people for the inevitable echo because we don’t believe in soft furnishings at Radix.

David: No. Yes, as you can hear we’re recording this surrounded by breezeblocks, and minimalist style.

Katy: It’s very fashionable.

David: How are you, Katy?

Katy: I’m very well, thank you it’s nice to be back near people.

David: Yeah, isn’t it?

David: And talking in real life and not having lag in conversations. But now I have no excuse for when my brain shuts down. It’s just all me.

David: I won’t tell anyone if you don’t. So Katy, as guest co-host, would you mind telling the listener how they can get in touch with us?

Katy: I can absolutely do that. Listener, if you have any comments or suggestions you can find Radix on LinkedIn or Twitter @radixcom. Or, if you want us to answer your question on a future episode, record a quick voice note and send it by email: [email protected].

David: Cracking job; thank you very much.

Katy: Right then, let’s get on to this month’s question. Come in Alistair Ross.

Alistair: Hello. I’m Alistair Ross, creative partner at LogicLogicMagic. And my question is, why is there so little humour in B2B content?

David: This is a really well made point Alistair. When we think about the really memorable examples of B2B work, I mean, especially B2B videos, so many of them are funny, but actually, those examples are few and far between. And when I asked on LinkedIn, 69% of respondents said B2B content is more serious now than it used to be. And that comes at a time when people are talking a lot more about emotion in B2B content and the importance of B2B brands being likeable. So it seems a bit well, weird. To get to the bottom of it all. I asked Lianna Patch from Punchline Copy. Lianna is a comedian herself, but also she’s a copywriter and she’s worked on subjects as interesting as accountancy software and legal contracts for business. So I started by asking her Alistair’s question, why is there so little humour in B2B content?

Lianna Patch: I think it’s because people are scared. And there’s a holdover from, you know, business culture of the past, where we’re expected to be very formal and professional. And the definition of what’s professional is still kind of mired in. “Dear Sir, or, Madam, I have this offer for you please, at your earliest convenience reply”. And that’s not how humans talk. Right? So there’s this resistance because it’s scary to try a new thing. It’s scary to be the only one in your industry trying the new thing. But I think the payoff can be incredible.

David: And is that harder to do in B2B, do you think?

Lianna: Only because of the mindset, and because there are more corporate structures and people to get through and permissions to get, you know, if you’re running your own thing, you can decide to change the way you communicate. But if you’re working with 50 other people who also have to be on board, then it’s much slower and often doesn’t happen.

David: Do you think the picture has changed lately?

Lianna: Maybe it’s wishful thinking, but I hope that I see a trend toward using it more. I wonder if the pandemic has affected people’s willingness to go out on that limb? Because like everything is on fire all the time. So like maybe we shouldn’t joke, although I think it works to lift the pressure sometimes.

David: So if the listener was tempted to start trying a bit of humour in their B2B content. Do you have tips for them? Where should they start? Because you know all about being funny, right?

Lianna: I hope so. God, I hope so. I’m just an enthusiast, just a casual observer. I always say start in emails, because that’s where you have that one-to-one relationship building opportunity. It’s less risky. And then even within that, you don’t need to start your email like, “Hey, David, knock, knock, who’s there cold email” although I love that, and I would love receiving that. There’s a spectrum, right? You can sort of ratchet up the warmth and the personality. So maybe you switch from saying, Dear David, to Hi, David. Maybe you contract more words from “we do not do this” to “we don’t do this”, which hopefully, you don’t have to say all the time. You know what I’m saying? Like there’s a way to just be friendlier, that’s on its way to actual humour and jokes.

David: So you’re kind of warming them up. And then you’re hitting them with the jokes…

Lianna: Hopefully. And maybe that’s a confidence builder on the end of the person who’s trying it for the first time.

David: Sure. And then are there aspects of B2B that you think are kind of particularly – so emails as a format, good place to start? Are there kinds of aspects of when you’re writing to someone about their job where humour can be particularly helpful?

Lianna: I think so. Especially if you have to deliver bad news, or you have constructive criticism or feedback to deliver, couching that in some sort of humour or observation that makes them feel like we’re in this together, or I know how you might be feeling to get this news. And I get it. And like, hopefully, it doesn’t ruin the rest of your day, or whatever. I think that can help soften things and make people more receptive to receiving bad news or criticism. But you don’t want to joke about them. You don’t want to joke about their ability, like big warning sign, big caveat.

David: Okay, so you don’t make jokes at their expense. But you might joke about the realities that they’re facing as part of their work.

Lianna: Right, right. So this is something that I tend to teach is that observational humour is one of the safest styles of humour. And that’s making a joke about something that we can both observe in our environment, or in pop culture or current events. That brings us closer together, but I’m not the butt of the joke. And you’re not the butt of the joke. So we can safely laugh at it together

David: with you. And presumably, within B2B, the point is that you have to show them how well you understand their job.

Lianna: Right. So like, if you’re, if you’re delivering the bad news that supply chain disruptions have kept your container in port, and you still don’t have, you know, this product for your client, depending on how many times you’ve had to tell them and like how receptive they might be to this. You might say, like, I know, it’s, it’s been 84 years and use that gif from Titanic of the old lady like holding them. “It’s been 84 years…” although that might be too niche. Like, I know, You’ve been waiting forever. And it really feels like this for me. I feel like I’ve lived 1,000 lifetimes just waiting for your container to be offloaded. But in the meantime, here’s what we can do. And here’s some ways that I can help you. So if you’re going to make a joke, in a bad situation like that in a fraught situation, remember that you should end with helping them. Don’t just like, make a joke and leave them there.

David: As you mentioned earlier, for a lot of people in B2B, the problem is going to be getting that stuff past their stakeholders, right, getting that stuff approved and signed off. You got any tips on how they can approach that?

Lianna: They can point to the piles and piles of research, showing the benefits of humour for relationship building information recall, anxiety reduction, you know, ability to see someone who’s making your life harder as a person with their own issues, and not just like a problem. There’s so much research out there pointing to the psychological, social and emotional benefits of humour.

David: So could you give an example that has kind of worked for you in B2B of using humour?

Lianna: Yeah, so I worked for a client called Sprinkler Supply Store, and they wholesale sprinkler parts and landscaping equipment. So I wrote some email series for them, some automated email series. And I think usually in all across all industries, but especially in like B2B and manufacturing, you get someone clicking on in Klaviyo, and just using the default flows that are already set up, but we wanted to do something different and fun. And so we set up an abandoned cart flow, where we talk about one of the guys who works at the company is crying because you haven’t finished checking out and then the second email is like “Kyle is under the desk, now he won’t come out we had to call his mom” and the third email is like, “Look, Kyle’s on his last legs, we need you to finish paying.” And the client gets good feedback on that all the time, people respond to those emails and say like “This brightened my day, this was really funny and unexpected.” And they notice elsewhere in the funnel that I worked on optimising with them, they noticed that microcopy that feels friendly and feels funny and like, hey, a human was here, a human paid attention to this, I will buy from them with more confidence now. Because if they pay this much attention to their checkout flow, someone will be there when I need support.

David: I guess what I see with a lot of brands that use humour to attract certain clients is that by doing that, they’re trying to kind of turn away people that maybe aren’t such a good fit for them. And maybe it’s a good way to find the clients that are the best fit for you and the way that you want to work. Does that sort of make sense?

Lianna: Yeah. When you start to get more comfortable with your sense of humour, and your personality, and how you can bring that into your communication, any disconnect between that and a potential client is probably a red flag. Like, I have no problem with people who want to be very formal about their projects. And like, obviously, I send proposals and we do contracts. And you know, I have an invoicing software like that kind of professional, obviously, very important. But if we’re not able to write each other quick email saying like, “Hey, did you get a chance to look at the document? Yeah, I did. I’m out this week, but I’ll look at it later.” If every email has to be like, “Julieta, upon receipt of your former email…” I have decided that, you know, that it’s not a good fit. And I tend to sort of repel those people before they even get to me on purpose.

David: Is there a challenge where people are maybe nervous because not everyone agrees on what’s funny, right? It’s a very personal thing.

Lianna: Definitely. Yeah. And I think that’s part of the resistance. People are afraid to make a joke because they don’t know if it’s gonna resonate with the other person. And I think getting around that starts with knowing your own sense of humour. And starting to know your own sense of humour involves looking at what you enjoy. What makes you laugh, being mindful in the moment? What shows and comic books and cartoons do you like now? And did you like as a kid, what stand-up comedians do you find really funny, and just get very curious about what it is about them? Maybe it’s the subject matter, maybe it’s the delivery, maybe it’s the sophisticated joke setup, and you just have like an incredibly highbrow intellectual taste and humour. But that will help you connect with what you find funny. So you can bring a little bit of that in at a time, and it feels authentic and not like you’re trying to be someone else.

David: If the listener wants to find out more about you, either your comedy or your copywriting? How can they get in touch with you?

Lianna: They can find me on Twitter @punchlinecopy where I share far too much about my personal life.

David: Don’t we all. Thanks again, Alastair, for your question, and thank you, Lianna. I had an absolute blast talking to you, which is kind of predictable when you think about it. Katy, what stood out for you there?

Katy: I mean, I think for a start, she is very correct in saying that people are scared of it because I personally am terrified. There’s something that feels so risky about putting a joke down on paper and sending it to a client. I feel like an inherent need to defend a joke that I make and over explain it to the point where it stops being funny.

David: Explain a joke, it no longer works.

Katy: Exactly. And it will always get taken out anyway. Because I think, yeah, people are super nervous about it. And with good reason, I think. Well, I think I see more examples of humour going badly than humour going well. And it depends whether you think all publicity is good publicity.

David: Can you think of an example of humour going badly?

Katy: I mean, I always lean on the same thing every time, which is the messages you get when things crash. This isn’t a B2B example, specifically, but it’s something I see a lot when Chrome breaks and you get a little sad face, and you get oops, and I’ve been harping on this literally my entire career at Radix. I hate it. I hate it so much. It makes me so angry, just irrationally angry. And I get it like objectively it’s, you know, it’s designed to diffuse something that’s frustrating to you, but I see red at that point. I’m starting to think that maybe I’m just a bad person that doesn’t like humour. I thought I did. But maybe I don’t.

David: Yeah, I mean, I think like MailChimp do this really well, like there’s a whole guide for MailChimp’s writers about what you do and what you don’t joke about. An error message is, you know that the whole thing is about what is the reader feeling in that moment, if the reader is frustrated and a bit annoyed, making a joke at that moment is maybe not the thing to do. But it’s all situational, about the audience rather than about you, which I think is pretty is pretty clever. I mean, there are good examples, though. I mean, B2B is kind of ripe for that observational stuff that Lianna was talking about, because there is so much about work that is ridiculous.

Katy: Oh, yeah. So silly. And I think, with the exception of a few, probably executive level, people who take it very seriously, I think it’s universally accepted that business structures and things we do on a daily basis, are very silly.

David: You just need to want to point it out. Right?

Katy: Exactly. Like you need someone who’s probably braver than I am to point out that we’re all just sitting at our little computers writing our little emails.

David: One of the best examples of humour I’ve seen lately, in a B2B context is like the Apple thing that they did last year that was shortlisted for the best content of the year. The one that like this whole working from home thing. And, you know, they kind of just exaggerated how ridiculous everything was now everyone was kind of working from home, but not doing it in a way that was anyway, kind of making a light of the pandemic, I think it was quite skilfully done. So when you’re writing a piece of content, and you’re thinking of putting something in funny, is that coming from you? And then you’re explaining to the client, or is the client pushing you to be more funny?

Katy: I think usually, if a client is telling me to be funny, I will do absolutely everything in my power to tell them not to be funny. I feel like if they come to me expecting to try and be funny, it’s not gonna end well. I do. Only with clients, I know really well. And I’ve spent a lot of time like, stewing in their brand voice, I think, then you get, you get a sense of what you’re able to joke about, and the kind of jokes that would fit with their tone.

David: I have this theory that puns specifically – humour, I have time for – puns specifically, I think are a nightmare in B2B. Because most of the time, we’re writing for people that have spent more time in that industry than we have. And so they’ve seen all the puns, like if you’re someone like us, and you write for this industry, that industry, the other industry a little bit at a time a pun might seem really fun to you. But like if you’re an OEM in the air conditioning industry, how many times do you think you’ve seen puns with the word “cool”? That’s a cool solution. Yep. You know, or I see so many things aimed at the automotive industry, that are always switching gear or puns with drive, you know, drive results? Like do you not think that they’ve seen all of that already? I think that’s always the slight worry that I have. Is it the like, it’s old hat already for the audience.

Katy: Yeah, I kind of think about it, in the same way as I experienced in retail, when I was younger, when something wouldn’t scan properly. And the other person is like, oh, it’s free. And, and you know, that’s very hilarious. Well done, congratulations. But also, you’re probably the eighth person, probably on the same product that doesn’t have a proper barcode on it, asking me that question. And, I mean, in that case, you’re paid to laugh. But when you’re trying to sell to somebody, or you know, convince them to come to your company, they’re just gonna roll their eyes is so hard, like, there’ll be a physical creaking noise.

David: So we think probably observational humour about how ridiculous work is, is good. And it helps you as a B2B brand to show someone how well you understand their job. Puns may be less so

Katy: Maybe, definitely not. Thank you.

David: So I actually wanted to get to the bottom of this idea about whether there’s less humour in B2B than they used to be ‘cause I kind of feel like all the good examples that I know apart from the apple one are kind of four or five years old. So I asked our friends on LinkedIn 69% said there’s less funny content now than there used to be. Andrew Last at Harvard says it’s definitely becoming rarer, which is a shame because it has so much impact. Andre Spiteri says they’re still some funny stuff, but sadly, again becoming rarer, while Craig Clark at Marketreach says they’re actively trying to encourage people to try it. Recently, I’ve spoken with a marketer at a B2B tech company that’s well known for its humour. And even there, they are deliberately trying to move away from it. I mean, is that a trend that you see things are more serious than they were?

Katy: I’ve definitely seen less of out in the world. I think, for me, personally, I’m in the fortunate position where I’m starting to bed into clients that I’ve worked with for four or five years, they’re trusting me a little bit to have a bit of fun. Yeah, I’m currently working on a project which is targeting UK health providers. And I think there’s a good opportunity there to tap into a little bit of their gallows humour, but not too much of it. I don’t want to be stepping on toes.

David: So if there’s less funny content, then maybe that is an opportunity. Either way, thanks to everyone who took part in the discussion, you lovely, lovely people.

Katy: Now it’s time to hear our copywriting tip of the month. Radix’s Head of Copy, Matt Godfrey is far too shy to record his actual voice. So we had to get a computer to read his tip for him.

Robo Matt: When you’ve finished writing a piece, delete your first sentence. Too much B2B content opens with unnecessary exposition, especially considering we’re typically writing for an expert audience so by deleting your first sentence, or even your first paragraph, there’s a good chance you’ll have a much stronger opening that will hook readers in rather than telling them stuff they already know.

David: Thank you for that Robo Matt. It’s good advice, especially in B2B. Katy, is that trick that works for you?

Katy: Yeah, absolutely. I think. I mean, for me, I’m a very aggressive self-editor. So it’s not just the first line or the first paragraph that goes. It’s often the first 300 words that I have written, but, yeah, it’s about acknowledging how much of your writing is working yourself up to the point that really matters, I think, and, you know, culling what is extraneous.

David: Anything that enables us to delete in today’s fast moving, competitive digital landscape, comma,

Katy: Yeah, no one needs any of that. No one.

David: Well, I’m sorry to say that is all we have time for this episode. Katy, please, would you thank this month’s contributors.

Katy: Huge thanks to Alistair Ross for asking such a thought provoking question and to Lianna for answering it so excellently. And also thanks to Matt’s robot twin for the copywriting tip, and to everyone who took part in our LinkedIn poll and discussion.

David: And thanks to you, Katy, awesome as ever, and lovely to see you in person, of course. And even if the room is a bit echoey nice to actually do this the proper way. Listener remember, it could be your question that we answer in a future episode. If you have a question for B2BQ&A to answer, email and voice memo to [email protected]. Or find us on social media. I’ll see you next month for a special B2BQ&A when we’ll be trying to answer the contentious question: what has been this year’s best B2B content? Until then, make good content and remember a day without laughter is a day wasted. If you spent the day laughing on a zoom call, well make your own mind up

David and Katy: Goodbye!